The Essence of Servant Leadership
EPISODE 30
In this insightful episode of the Moonshots Master Series, hosts Mike and Mark delve into the transformative concept of Servant Leadership. Featuring four compelling audio clips from renowned thought leaders, this episode explores the fundamental aspects and skills that define true servant leaders.
Segments:
INTRO: The episode kicks off with an introduction to the concept of Servant Leadership.
Simon Sinek on ‘Leaders Eat Last’: Simon Sinek explains the essence of his famous mantra, 'Leaders eat last.' This segment focuses on the idea that influential leaders prioritize the needs of their team members above their own. (Duration: 4m01s)
James C Hunter on Continuous Self-Improvement: James C. Hunter emphasizes the importance of continually cultivating leadership skills, likening behavior to a muscle that needs regular exercise and development. (Duration: 3m42s)
Patrick Lencioni on Accountability: In a discussion highlighting the negative impact of avoiding accountability, Patrick Lencioni sheds light on the crucial role of peer pressure and the need for leaders to commit to a clear action plan. This segment is marked as the [KILLER CLIP] of the episode. (Duration: 2m56s)
OUTRO: The episode concludes with insights from Brené Brown, who reveals vital skills and patterns essential for outstanding leadership, including the courage to develop and empower others. (Duration: 2m33s)
This episode of the Moonshots Master Series for Members offers a deep dive into the philosophy and practice of Servant Leadership. Through the wisdom of experts like Simon Sinek, James C Hunter, Patrick Lencioni, and Brené Brown, listeners will understand what it takes to lead with a service-first mindset, fostering environments where teams and individuals can thrive.
Transcript
00:00:04:24 - 00:00:37:04
Unknown
Hello and welcome to the Moon Shots Master series. It's episode 30. I'm your co-host, Mike Parsons. And as always, I'm joined by Mr. Mark Freeland. Good morning, Mike. Hey, good morning, Mike. Good morning, listeners, but also good morning subscribers. Welcome to this brand new episode of the Masters Series. And Mike, I mean, we've got a very, very inline, very compliment episode today for one of our series that we're running on the Moonshot show as well at this point.
00:00:37:06 - 00:01:05:10
Unknown
Today we are diving into the plethora and very interesting area of servant leadership only. We're getting into servant leadership and it really is about being two things a servant and a leader, and they go together very nicely. And Mike, we have to say, we have been studying some great experts and superstars in the area of servant leadership, academics and authors.
00:01:05:12 - 00:01:28:11
Unknown
And, you know, the funny thing is it has all the hallmarks of what we discovered with happiness and what overall we've seen as sort of our moonshot mindset, which is leadership is something we can all practice, but it's like a muscle. It's like going to the gym. You got to do it regularly to keep in shape. And it starts with you and we can all do it.
00:01:28:13 - 00:01:56:19
Unknown
So I'm delighted that we can pull together some of our most favorite superstars Sinek, Brené Brown, I mean, Mark, Patrick Clancy. Only I don't want to give it all away, but it is a who's who of moonshot superstars. Yeah, that's right. We have an action packed show today with clips from some of our favorite leaders, favorite authors, favorite individuals who are masterminds when it comes to this idea of servant leadership.
00:01:56:21 - 00:02:15:18
Unknown
And you're right, Mike, We don't want to give too much away, but for our subscribers and members of the Master series, you're going to be in line for an action packed show today. Yeah, I think if you're at that point in life where you're like, Hey, I think I can do more than just be a subject matter expert.
00:02:15:19 - 00:02:37:20
Unknown
If you're wondering, you know, you've been taking care of yourself, your skills, this is the show for you. If you want to get the key step to becoming a leader, it's all about serving others first. Do that and good things happen. And we've got a bit of a roadmap on how to do that. So, Mark, where do you want to start?
00:02:37:22 - 00:02:58:06
Unknown
Yeah, well, I want to start Mike and members with one of our moonshot favorite individuals, Mr. Simon Sinek, whose author authored Leaders It Last, which is obviously Mike, a great book for us to study when it comes to servant leadership. So let's hear from Simon Sinek helping us understand why leaders put other people first.
00:02:58:06 - 00:03:04:17
Unknown
There's a funny story that goes along with how we came up with the title of this book, and we are all to blame.
00:03:04:19 - 00:03:23:07
Unknown
Here I am writing a book about the importance of working with people, interacting with people, human relationships. And yet the way I and the publisher interacted was we would send emails to each other with title suggestions every now and then we'd get on the phone, but it was mainly done through email. Somebody would send a list of their favorite and you know, somebody would write back, That's junk.
00:03:23:07 - 00:03:46:09
Unknown
I kind of like that one. And it was a labored, horrible process. No one ever. We never agreed with. It was just it was just talking at each other. And coincidence. I happened to be walking past the publisher's office and decided to stick my head in and say hello. Went upstairs and we sat down and within I think 30 or 40 minutes, we had a title that we all fell in love with.
00:03:46:11 - 00:04:07:08
Unknown
And what you realize is, is we can tell an idea to someone over email, but you can't interact. And if you think about how ideas really happen, it's not presentation response, presentation, response, it's interruption and backwards and forwards and battling and saying, No, no, no, that's not what I mean. And it's messy and it's the messiness that cannot happen over and over.
00:04:07:08 - 00:04:27:00
Unknown
An Internet connection, over email, because everything is exact over email. It can it can happen over the phone, but it's so much better in person when you get to see someone's body language and you see the frustration and you try and explain yourself. And and and we told each other stories as opposed to telling each other what we think it should be.
00:04:27:02 - 00:04:46:05
Unknown
And the story that I told was not being able to understand what made the Marines so amazing at what they do. I sat down with the Marine Corps General, General Flynn, actually, who wrote the foreword for the book, and I said to him, What makes the Marines so great? And he just looked at me and said, Officers eat last.
00:04:46:07 - 00:05:14:05
Unknown
And it's sort of struck me that if you compare that to the business world and the entrepreneurial world, entrepreneurs are always told, pay yourself first, look after yourself first. And yet I'm being told by this Marine general that it's the complete opposite. And there's there's a symbolic gesture, but more importantly, there's a there's an importance to it. The there's a photograph I saw, you know, in these Kenya shootings that just happened not so long ago.
00:05:14:07 - 00:05:30:09
Unknown
We had the amazing experience that a photographer happened to be in the building. Usually we see the aftermath and here we now have photographs of the actual shooting going on. And there's one photograph that was in The New York Times that both haunted me and inspired me to this day and wanted me and inspires me, I should say.
00:05:30:11 - 00:05:50:03
Unknown
And it's the photograph of a mother in the sound of gunshots, lays herself on top of her child. And you see this picture of a mother lying on top of her child and you realize that's what it is. That's what leadership is, that when there is danger, it's not protecting myself, but it's rather willing to put myself in harm's way to protect another.
00:05:50:04 - 00:06:10:10
Unknown
That's what eating last means. It means that I will give the very the very essence of life, food and water. I will give it to the person I love first so that they may live, even if it means I eat less. And that's what officers eat. Last means it is symbolic, but it is also very real and real leadership, real leaders.
00:06:10:15 - 00:06:41:13
Unknown
I've even given up the terminology of good leaders and great leaders. You're either a leader or you're not a leader. That's it. Real leaders, biological, anthropological leaders are are that mother who instinctively, without weighing the pros and cons or the bad things that may happen to her, throw herself on her child. That's what leadership is. You know, do we believe that our our leaders would throw themselves on us?
00:06:41:15 - 00:06:58:00
Unknown
You know, if they heard gunshots, if the economy shook, would they quickly throw themselves on us? That that's that's what leaders eat. Last means It is very literal. It is very, very literal.
00:06:58:00 - 00:07:13:12
Unknown
Wow. Cynic. What is storyteller and what is story to tell? Ma I think there are two big ideas we can build on in there. First of all, that leadership is kind of opposite to how most of us may think about it.
00:07:13:12 - 00:07:49:17
Unknown
It's not top down, it's not for the few, it's for the many, and could practice from a mother to a child, from a manager to appear. And real leaders not only think about their team members, maybe listen to their team members, understand what they need, they then prioritize their members needs their teammates needs before their own. And it's that act of generosity.
00:07:49:19 - 00:08:17:13
Unknown
I think it's that act of sometimes courage is what creates these amazing bonds of trust. And we're going to hear later about trust because we've got the king of trust in teamwork. Patrick, only on the show. But I think these ideas that it's not top down and you're putting others before yourself is so counter to popular ways of thinking about leadership.
00:08:17:15 - 00:08:42:15
Unknown
CEO gets the corner office, the fast cash, the big paycheck. It's always about recognition, recognition, recognition of them as opposed to the many. And that it's only for them. It's not for all of us. But in fact, what we're hearing is that in the Marines, if you read the book, the junior cadets are the first in line for dinner and they're not long.
00:08:42:17 - 00:09:16:03
Unknown
And the big dogs are at the back, the big cheeses are at the back, and they wait to make sure the little guys get their food first, because the feeling of protection, trust and safety that creates is the foundation on which you can lead from and build great teams. Mark That was a huge opening clip. What are you taking out of a bit of Simon Sinek and great leaders Eat last?
00:09:16:05 - 00:09:54:00
Unknown
Well, look, I think you're right. It's a great way to open the show because it really speaks to this idea of prioritization, this idea of putting others first, this idea of really understanding and having empathy for the people that are around you, you know, specifically your teammates, your colleagues, maybe your direct reports. And what I scribbled down as Simon Sinek was speaking then was that reference at the very start as to how he named the book and the process of collaborating, collaborating over emails being a little bit forced, you know, you're constantly providing a recommendation rather than a collaboration.
00:09:54:02 - 00:10:19:08
Unknown
And I think what we're also going to experience today is this idea of not only having empathy for each other, but also having an open door, enabling each other to have ideas, enabling your teammates in your direct reports to provide points of view and to create an environment where that is celebrated. You know, this idea of collaboration is obviously a little bit more challenging nowadays with a lot of us still working from home, working remote and so on.
00:10:19:10 - 00:10:39:14
Unknown
But as we think about the people that we're either managing or the people that we're working alongside, I think this is already, Mike, an invitation to us to really consider how we're communicating to those people and whether it is something that we can improve upon. Maybe it's simple as avoiding emails for one day and instead just doing telephone calls.
00:10:39:16 - 00:10:59:18
Unknown
Maybe when you're providing tasks or inspiration to you individuals around you as an entrepreneur, you're putting them first rather than you. You're putting yourself on that backburner and instead prioritizing your time for that. And if you have to stay on a little bit later to get work done, maybe that's okay because you know that you're putting others first.
00:10:59:20 - 00:11:21:12
Unknown
And I think that's already Mike kicks us off on this ramp towards servant leadership that I'm already understanding how anybody can approach like this, how anybody can consider and put themselves in a position to think like this when it comes to their teams. Well, that's a beautiful thing because it's really not a question. Are you top dog in the corner office?
00:11:21:14 - 00:11:55:12
Unknown
But are you going to take the time to listen to the people around you, think about what they need and put those needs before your own? Do that and you're off to the races with leadership, regardless of your title, regardless of your title. So, you know, I think this is an invitation that we're going to call upon in this show and show you how to develop this, how it really takes place in the workforce, and how this is really one of the greatest forms of courage that you can bring.
00:11:55:14 - 00:12:28:02
Unknown
And it's worth it because the bond that you feel with people that you serve, people will feel when they feel safe and confident to be the best version of themselves. And you're part of creating those conditions. They will offer you good will and friendship and good vibes. So it's so funny that in order to serve yourself, you need to serve others first, much like our members subscribing to this very podcast.
00:12:28:04 - 00:12:54:23
Unknown
can you believe it? Not only are we joined by these individuals, Mike, in our show today, educating us and servant leadership are also joined by all of our Moonshot Master series members. So please welcome in Barb, Ken, Dietmar, Marjan, Conor Rodriguez, Liza and Sid, Mr. Bond, Paul Kalman, Joe Christian, Samuel and Barbara, Andre, Chris, Deborah, Lisa, Steve, Craig, Daniel and Andrew.
00:12:55:00 - 00:13:23:09
Unknown
Ravi, Yvette, Catrin and Raul. Nick Ibarra Ingram, Dirk and Harry Karthik and Carter, Mark Jett, Roger and Steph. All of our plus annual members alongside them. Hot on those heels is Ron MLM James and Diana Wade, Christophe Denice, Laura, Smitty, Corey, Angela Bertram, Daniella, Mike, Dan Antonio, Zachary Austin and Fred Lorenzo, Ola, Andy and our brand new member Diana.
00:13:23:09 - 00:13:50:02
Unknown
Thank you Diana. We hope you're enjoying the content so far. We're so pleased to bring you as well as all of our members this episode on Servant Leadership. Absolutely. And it's been very nice in the last week we got two emails from you, our members, one from Lassie and one from Kevin. And we just love to hear how people enjoy this show, how they're using the topics, how they like learning out loud with us.
00:13:50:02 - 00:14:10:12
Unknown
Mark I think it's fantastic, isn't it? It's a robust well, like you say, Mike, we're driven by those around us where we're here to inspire others. We're here to get advice, get feedback and hear points of view from our members. Yeah, so we're always keen to hear feedback recommendations as well as just the odd friendly thumbs up here in there.
00:14:10:17 - 00:14:41:19
Unknown
So please keep on keeping on. Now talking about keeping on, keeping on. There's someone who's really turbocharging us to keep on keeping on. That's James C Hunter. That's right. Somebody who's had not only their morning cup of coffee, but probably a few after that as well is James C Hunter. We're going to dive now. Mike Insurgency Hunter, author of The Servant, is going to teach us a little bit about this idea that we referred to earlier and how behavior can be a muscle that we can train.
00:14:41:21 - 00:15:01:08
Unknown
We become what we repeatedly do, right, What we focus attention to. That's what gets stronger. So if you can focus in on being a resentful, bitter person, guess what? There's going to come a point in time in life where nobody's going to want to be around you anymore. And I know a lot of people are. I've seen that play out.
00:15:01:10 - 00:15:20:10
Unknown
You want to be a good human being. You've got to start acting like one. It starts very young there. I mean, if we're effective parents, what do we teach our kids? We teach our kids character and it starts very young. Be patient, be kind, be a good listener, Follow through, share. Right. Don't hit your brother. Stop hurting your grandma.
00:15:20:12 - 00:15:43:11
Unknown
Right. Do the right thing. It starts very, very young. It's hopefully and it's a long journey. It's the most important skill you will develop in your life again. That's the second time I'll say it is your character. It's a muscle and it's either getting stronger or it's getting weaker. It doesn't just stay the same. Nothing living stays the same.
00:15:43:13 - 00:15:59:16
Unknown
I mean, we all learned this in science class, the second law of thermodynamics. I mean, the world is in a state of entropy. You've got to throw a lot of eggs on the fire just to keep up, right? People say, Well, I'm the same as I was a year ago. No green and grown or ripe and rotten pick one.
00:15:59:18 - 00:16:26:22
Unknown
Nothing lemon stays the same. So you want to be a stronger. You got to be you got to get in the gym, man. You got to lift those character weights every single day. What does that mean? Well, that means being patient when you don't feel patient being kind, when you're not feeling particularly kind today, listening when you don't have time, having that crucial conversation with your employer that you should have had two years ago, having that conversation, that's going to be hard.
00:16:26:22 - 00:16:48:03
Unknown
They're going to be mad. Yeah, that's the gym, right? Doing the right thing even when it costs you something. Then the next time you do it, it's still going to be hard, but it's going to be a little easier, right? You got to get in the pool. You're right. Leadership is a skill. It's a learned acquired ability. It doesn't it isn't something you do intellectually.
00:16:48:05 - 00:17:11:21
Unknown
Nobody ever became a better leader. Read one of my books, Darren. In fact, after I wrote the survey, the most common response I got, I still get it to this day. Emails. Jim Nice book, nice principles. Hey man, this is apple pie in the flag who disagrees with this stuff? But here's the problem. I got ten crazy supervisors in my building.
00:17:11:23 - 00:17:33:19
Unknown
I told them to read your book. They like your book, but they're still crazy. How do you help people to get it from here to here? Head to heart and heart to have it? How do we help people get it into their games? Well, we got to practice like any skill. You got to get in the gym and the gym.
00:17:33:19 - 00:17:52:17
Unknown
Life is coming at you all day long, every day. You've made dozens of character choices today. Darren Yeah, I'm going to be patient or impatient, kind or unkind, Arrogant or humble, respectful or disrespectful. You've got to be selfless or selfish today. You've got to be honest and tell people the truth about gaps. Where are you going to take a pass today?
00:17:52:20 - 00:18:15:00
Unknown
Are you committed or are you just involved? Are you just showing up, taking a paycheck, or are you serious about leadership and helping people grow? These are choices. That's the that's that's that's how we build character. We have to practice this. So we got to get people in the gym. You want to be a better leader. You don't listen to another PowerPoint deck, read another book.
00:18:15:00 - 00:18:41:03
Unknown
I mean, that's helpful. I mean, just like go on a swimming class. But if you never get the pool man, it's a complete waste of time. Complete? Well put logs on the fire and work on the habit. You know, it's so true. And I think the key build that we can do here, Mark, is he described a couple of habits that we need to have kindness and patience.
00:18:41:03 - 00:19:00:09
Unknown
That's really what servant leadership calls upon. And I think he nailed it when he said, not every day we feel like being kind and patient. Yeah, but if you want to be a servant leader, so in order to get to that headspace, let's just check in so that we're kind of doing this out loud together. First, you have to realize we could all be leaders.
00:19:00:11 - 00:19:28:02
Unknown
Okay, got it. Doesn't matter about authority. It means thinking about and listening to the needs of those around you. And then this final thing is demonstrating kindness and patience, getting in that gym, as James Hunter would have to practice those things. When you're under pressure, when you're tired, when you're not feeling like it, that is where the rubber hits the road of leadership.
00:19:28:04 - 00:19:52:16
Unknown
Because if everybody is pushing themselves in the team to be kind and to be patient, then the good thing is that when you're feeling a little bit down, someone else will be paying it forward to you. And when you're feeling great, you pay it forward to someone else. And that's what great teams look like. That's when everybody is rowing in the same direction.
00:19:52:18 - 00:20:18:22
Unknown
And it's like that classic thing in sports when Mike if you think about NFL, some guy misses a tackle, but another guy has run back to make it. It's not really his job to make that tackle but he ran back. He gave a little bit extra on that day. Same thing in work. Maybe you missed something, but because your colleague cares double checked on your behalf, they caught that missing thing, fixed it, and away we go.
00:20:18:24 - 00:20:45:07
Unknown
This is thinking about others first before yourselves. That practice of kindness and patience. And it's like it's so. It's so damn simple, Matt. But we all kind of know that. Yeah, we don't always do it. Do we know? And look, I actually, before I circle back on that clip, I think something that you just said, Mike, is has reminded me of this idea.
00:20:45:07 - 00:21:05:09
Unknown
We're paying it forward. And, you know, covering the team is something that we heard from Phil Jackson. You know, he was describing or maybe was it was Michael Jordan actually the idea of knowing your teammate and respecting them so much that no matter what happens, whether it's the success or a mistake, you're still going to be there. You're going to be there to catch the ball.
00:21:05:09 - 00:21:25:04
Unknown
You're going to be there to play in the position that's left open to the idea of being totally in the same mindset as Yes. Well, that reminds me of this story from Last Dance, where Jordan flies to Vegas to pull Rodman out of the hotel room and bring him back to team training. It wasn't the coach that did it.
00:21:25:06 - 00:21:46:18
Unknown
No, no, it was the team. And I think you're right, Mike, leading back to this idea of what we just heard from Jamison Hunter, that idea of staying aligned, that idea of just starting today, even though it's going to be maybe a little bit difficult, maybe it's pushing you outside of your comfort zone. You touched upon the idea of being patient, being kind.
00:21:46:20 - 00:22:08:17
Unknown
We also heard from James Hunter there about the idea of listening rather than talking preaching. Just listen to others as well as that idea of having crucial conversations. You know, these are four big themes, big topics that each of us needs to do each day. And as I put myself in the shoes of a of a person, you might have direct reports, somebody who can.
00:22:08:19 - 00:22:30:00
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, as we've heard from Simon Sinek, anybody can be a servant leader. It's having the foresight to really put yourself in that position where you can start to practice now. Yes, get a little bit better at it. No matter what stage of the journey of your career that you asked, If you start now, think about where you're going to be in another 12 months.
00:22:30:02 - 00:22:56:15
Unknown
I mean, think about where are you going to be in ten years? So imagine you and I were in a team of 20 people and each day we did one act of kindness or patience towards each other. We imagine how good the vibe would be in a year. It would be fantastic. Yeah. You know, there'll be such a meld of of love and respect that you'd be able to rely on each other.
00:22:56:15 - 00:23:16:07
Unknown
So, Mark, I think I'd even be nice to you in Australia and England, playing in the cricket or the rugby. I mean, let's get it. Maybe, let's, let's not get. All right, let's not oversell this, right. We're big fans of some leadership. But you're right, we might not be able to go that far. There are some patriotic lines that we have to draw here.
00:23:16:07 - 00:23:35:24
Unknown
Okay. Okay. I think I think what it does remind me of, Mike and I want to hear from more from you as well, is when we're being put in this position to try new things like being kind to each other. I'm thinking that one way of doing this is actually to kind of keep a tracker in my mind.
00:23:36:01 - 00:24:01:21
Unknown
Or maybe that is said in my journal as to how I'm behaving in that day. So when I do have a day where maybe I'm not feeling that patient, right, Right. I can catch myself and I can think, you know what? I was a bit short to that person. I need to remember that. So can I tell you what is so OCD on my part is that in order to like William McRaven make my bed, that's a great morning practice.
00:24:01:23 - 00:24:24:20
Unknown
Our listeners and viewers and members all know about our code showers and journaling and all that crazy stuff. Okay. There's one other thing that I always try and do every single morning, and that is make a cup of coffee for my wife before I start work. Now, the point for me is going out of like, we have a nice automatic espresso coffee machine.
00:24:24:20 - 00:24:56:07
Unknown
As you know, thanks to the team at Breville. Now, here's the thing. She can press the buttons, but I just have this thing. If I start the day making the coffee for her even as she could, it's some little microscopic way of me paying it forward. Yeah. So what I would say is, if we do want to like practices and make it super easy is I just have morning make coffee for the missus, get to work, right.
00:24:56:09 - 00:25:17:03
Unknown
So maybe there is an equivalent for us in our lives. Like, if you could think of one thing, what would you do? I mean, you walk the dog every morning. That's already an act of kindness. Yeah. What I've particularly in where I've been based over the last six months, you know, a little bit more. Can I. I'll paint a picture for our members a little bit more.
00:25:17:03 - 00:25:51:06
Unknown
Countryside. Australia, kangaroos hopping over the highways, you know, very, very hot. I've really tried to prioritize relationship with my neighbors, you know, offering to give them a hand, making sure to say hello, acknowledge and remember things that they've said to try and create, you know, a relationship. And although that might seem and sounds quite small, you know, something that's fairly almost mandatory, it's something that really does make a big difference to me and probably as well as the agency.
00:25:51:07 - 00:26:12:02
Unknown
You know, when I leave having a conversation with them, I'll feel happier later. I'll have a smile on my face. I would have learned something maybe, And that random act of kindness helps me then be inspired during the rest of my day to look at other opportunities where I might do the same thing, Same thing. It's like when you see rubbish, when you're like you and I do a lot, quite a lot of walking.
00:26:12:04 - 00:26:37:18
Unknown
If I see some rubbish and just grab it and throw it in a bin like it's such a small thing and it's, it's, but it's this kindness, this patience, this is serving. Yeah. The community around you like it's little things that add up as we saw with atomic habits. Another habit is if you're thinking of going deep on this topic or many others, there is a destination on the world wide Internet.
00:26:37:18 - 00:27:12:03
Unknown
Mark, does anything come to mind? Well, certainly does Mike. I'd be lying to pretend that I didn't know. It's actually a fantastic destination that hopefully our members are quite well versed at now. But if you're not, we really invite you to go along to WW dot moonshots. Dot I this is our house, our moonshot, in fact our moon base Mike is probably what we should call it, Moon base of Transco grids, 240 plus shows of the moon show, 30 episodes of the master series, all available for members to go find.
00:27:12:07 - 00:27:39:00
Unknown
Show documents, transcripts, inspiration and models. Everything's over at Moonshots Dot. I really recommend everybody to go and check it out. Mike And one of the things you can check out there is Patrick Glenn, the only who I believe we might discuss. He's thinking right now, What do you think? Well, look, Mike, you would be dead on, correct that because we couldn't do a service to servant leadership without the main man himself, Mr. Petulance.
00:27:39:00 - 00:27:58:12
Unknown
He only talked to us a little bit more about team works. Talk to us about this concept of accountability, which is going to be key, as well as the idea of committing to a clear plan of action. But peer pressure. Think about the best teams in the world, like firefighters and soldiers and a rescue mission or police or people in the emergency room at a hospital.
00:27:58:18 - 00:28:11:18
Unknown
They don't wait for the supervisor to come around. Somebody is going to bleed out or something terrible is going to happen. And so you have to say to your peer, what's going on? Come on, I need more from you. If you wait and talk to the boss and the boss is like, great. Now I get it all.
00:28:11:24 - 00:28:27:09
Unknown
Hey, somebody told me you were doing this. really? Who told you? I don't know. It doesn't matter. Let's just. Now they're wondering who ran it. Yeah, the boss is dragged into it. This sucks, but when that person turns to that person says, Hey, what's going on? And they correct each other, it's like, that's a sign of teamwork.
00:28:27:14 - 00:28:43:15
Unknown
And I will actually use the word that's a sign of love. If you love somebody telling them what their need to do better is a great service and great teams do that and all in on great sports teams. You see somebody on the court saying, Hey, hey, do that. And they'll go, My bad, my bad, my bad, and they work it out.
00:28:43:15 - 00:29:10:01
Unknown
The coach doesn't have to say anything. So here's the thing. How can we create an environment where everybody hold each other accountable? Because I know if you're a leader sitting there going, this would be so sweet if I didn't have to do this. The only way to create an environment where peers hold each other accountable is if we as leaders demonstrate that we're willing to hold them accountable, See, I don't think that the leader on a team is the primary source of accountability.
00:29:10:01 - 00:29:30:09
Unknown
In fact, I would say that that leader should be the ultimate source, but not the primary source. Peers should be the primary source. But if the leader is not willing to be the ultimate source, if people know that the leader is not going to hold people accountable, then they're not going to do it to one another. I know this and I'm confident this because I'm one of those leaders and I don't like to hold people accountable.
00:29:30:11 - 00:29:51:02
Unknown
And that means my team doesn't like to hold each other accountable. And it's my fault and I'm working on this. And if you've ever studied graduate level psychology or business, you know that there's a technical term for leaders like me who don't like to hold people accountable. We're what's called a worse and I am a wuss. And let me tell you something, there's a lot more wussy leaders out there in the world than I thought.
00:29:51:08 - 00:30:07:19
Unknown
Sometimes a big, hardened, candy coated shell of a leader like I'm really tough. They'll say, I don't have a problem with this accountability stuff. You can skip over that one paragraph. that's good. Why do you say that? I fire people all the time. I fired a guy last week. Pick someone. I'll fire them right now. Just to prevent him.
00:30:07:21 - 00:30:29:19
Unknown
Firing somebody is not. That's often the act of cowardice in not having held somebody accountable. I'm not saying you don't have to do that sometimes, but oftentimes I'll say so have you Did you hold them accountable for their B? I shouldn't have to do that. I'm busy like, no, no, no, no, no. The accountability is looking at somebody and having a difficult conversation of, hey, this is what I see and this has to change.
00:30:29:21 - 00:30:48:24
Unknown
And it's an act of love. And most employees will say their careers change because somebody took the time and had the courage to do that with them. And then we get to be leaders. And if you're just like me, I don't want to have to do that. I don't want that person to feel bad. It's like, No, we have to do that.
00:30:49:01 - 00:31:13:08
Unknown
Tough love. Mark It is all about the tough love to hold people accountable to their own dreams, goals, hopes and aspirations. And you know what? I think he's so damn right that so many of us are wusses because we have a hard time keeping ourselves accountable to our own proper promises, let alone hitting up the people we care about.
00:31:13:08 - 00:31:39:10
Unknown
And so, you know. You said you'd run the marathon, but you didn't train this week. That doesn't I'm not sure how that's in line with running the marathon. The American And I think the practice of accountability between two peers is a crucial conversation. One of your favorite books, If I do not remember it correctly, is this not the one that really hit you between the.
00:31:39:11 - 00:32:11:07
Unknown
You know what? Yeah. The crucial conversations. In fact, Mike, we've heard this reference to this idea a couple of times already today. We heard it from Jesse Hunter. We've now heard it from Patrick Lindsay. Only this idea of inviting maybe discomfort into your working day by forcing yourself to have a crucial conversation that might be to call somebody up on a lack of performance, that might be having an awkward conversation around maybe holiday timelines, expectations of work, whatever it might be.
00:32:11:09 - 00:32:35:19
Unknown
It's something that my I certainly have delayed in the past and probably something I still do. But much like Patrick Lindsay, only maybe I'm a wussy as well. But the reason the reason why I think you're right at bringing up this idea of crucial conversations, is it because it relies on this magic word of accountability? You need to hold yourself without having your house in order.
00:32:35:21 - 00:33:02:12
Unknown
How can you expect to lead a team really, really well? How can you expect everybody to respect you and do want to provide the hours, the dedication, the commitment to the job? Unless they see you doing the same thing? And I like this idea of making sure that you're really, really demonstrating the ownership of the role. And I don't necessarily mean that from, you know, leadership perspective.
00:33:02:12 - 00:33:20:10
Unknown
You don't need to be, as we're learning for servant leadership, the loudest person in the room. You don't have to be a typical leader. But what I like about this concept of accountability is that we can all do it to each other. You know what Patrick won't mention? He's really digging into that is it's the job of peer to peer feedback.
00:33:20:12 - 00:33:43:24
Unknown
It's the peers hold each other accountable. And in doing so, you're holding yourself accountable too. Because I can't turn around to you, Mike, and say, Hey, you didn't deliver the show document for next week's M.C. Reason. Because at the end of the day, maybe I didn't either. So suddenly you're able to find maybe gaps in the way that you work, but through the act of actually calling it out for others.
00:33:44:01 - 00:34:04:14
Unknown
And again, I love this idea of maybe there's a random act of kindness there. Maybe there's just a concept of ownership and the idea of really, really being transparent. But I think as a servant leader, it's really encouraging each other to have empathy for one another as teammates, right? Totally. So let's let's play a game on this one, right?
00:34:04:14 - 00:34:28:07
Unknown
Because this is huge. If we can have these crucial conversations that may be a little bit difficult that maybe require you to put the needs of the person before yourself and hit you with like nine classic accountability tactics. And let's start with which one is the hardest and which one is the most powerful? All right. Here we go.
00:34:28:09 - 00:35:06:01
Unknown
Ways to to make each other more accountable as servant leaders. Here we go. First option Clarify expectations to set smart goals, foster open communication, lead by example, provide constructive feedback, use performance metrics, encourage self-assessment, offer support and resources, and recognize and reward all of those. Which one do you think is the knockout like go to in your experience?
00:35:06:03 - 00:35:33:24
Unknown
Yeah. I like this list actually. There's a few that I scribbled down. I think the knockout for me is this consistent feedback because I believe consistent. And actually, as we heard on one of our recent shows, it's less about maybe feedback, maybe more about advice. You know, you're seeking advice from others in order to get better. I think this idea of consistent feedback is similar to what you were saying a minute ago about being held accountable.
00:35:34:01 - 00:35:59:14
Unknown
If I've got a team leader, if I've got a coach and on the NBA team or anybody around me, if I'm held accountable through consistent feedback, consistent advice, I think there's only naturally one way that I'm going to go and that's going to be up. It's going to be in the right direction, so to speak. Having said that, I think the self assessment pieces intrinsic within that are right.
00:35:59:14 - 00:36:27:09
Unknown
I am so with you. I think if I was just to totally cheat and change the game, I just explain to you that we're trying to play and said short versus long term, the long term knockout here it's self assessment is I think 99% of people, if they can be honest with where they're at to themselves and with others, then they are so close to achieving their goals because they're like, hey, I did or did not run enough against my goals this week.
00:36:27:11 - 00:37:16:24
Unknown
Like to be brutally honest with yourself and assess yourself and not sugarcoat it to yourself, but just be absolutely real. I totally agree I think that's the big knock out. I think what the funny thing is about feedback and setting of expectations is how I think you touched on something really important is the frequency of that. Yeah. So I gave one of my clients, I gave the one minute manage a book, which we've studied, and I said to this, this leader, I said, What is crucial is you got to sit down and say, here's what's, what's going well that the person's working on, here's what they can improve and you can just let you do
00:37:16:24 - 00:37:39:10
Unknown
it for a few minutes a day. But the thing is, every day you're doing that, you will get such great alignment if you just do that for 30 days, the two of you will be in lockstep. Because I had a moment today where I did some work for someone and they I knew like we had done a really good job for this client.
00:37:39:12 - 00:38:14:17
Unknown
But just to hear it even like a geriatric, like me, it still really was a good feeling when they're like, Dang, this is good, you know, like, Yeah, right. And the thing is, we all need it, so let's give it. And the thing that we're really getting into though, is to bring it back is this crucial conversations when somebody that you're going to be a servant leader towards is unaware that they're not acting in line with their own expectations.
00:38:14:19 - 00:38:43:16
Unknown
This is got to be the messiest ugliest calling someone out and say, hey, you know what? You're really not in line with the things you've said that are important. And finding a way to to give this feedback without judgment. That to me, Mark, is at the heart of servant leadership. So when someone who is it, they know that you're helping, you're not judging.
00:38:43:16 - 00:39:14:03
Unknown
And to me, this is this is so hard. What I try when I'm in this situation is not to use good, bad or evocative emotional words. But I'll use my writing analogy. If you said to me, Middle of the year, you're going to run in a marathon and you said to me today, I haven't run at all this week.
00:39:14:05 - 00:39:36:15
Unknown
Well, I would say, you know, when we talked about the marathon, you express your desire to run it in 3 hours, which is a fairly rigorous run program for six months to get there. And where less than six months, do you think not running this week is the kind of level of training that will help you run sub three?
00:39:36:17 - 00:39:57:19
Unknown
Because the temptation is you're totally cutting corners, you're a wuss, you're being lazy, you're not running this week. Notice how that is full of judgment, right? I think if you angry and well, you said you wanted to run sub three, you said you needed to run, you know, 25 cases a week. You didn't run any case. Like do you think that's in line?
00:39:57:21 - 00:40:26:07
Unknown
Right. Almost. What I'm doing there is letting you cast judgment on yourself. It's yes, it's a it's, in fact, turning the mirror around, isn't it? Yeah, It's helping demonstrate. There are a hole in the approach that you've currently got. I don't know whether you're aware of them, but let me gently illustrate them to you. Yes. And by doing that, without removing, you're doing really badly.
00:40:26:09 - 00:40:50:18
Unknown
Instead, just helping them understand that he contextualizes it, doesn't it? It's that alignment you were speaking to by having those regular conversations, maybe being a held accountable, maybe being reminded you stay in that lane, you stay aligned towards that goal. So if I was your accountability coach, I think on your running program, if I was checking in with you readily enough, it's not going to be me.
00:40:50:21 - 00:41:13:20
Unknown
Like, Hey, dude should have run 25 KS. You haven't run any. It will be like, Hey, so how was your run yesterday? And you're like, I didn't run. You say, so what's your plan for today? So that's a great coaching question because I'm not like going, What do you mean you didn't run? That means that's terrible. That means you're not even adhering to your schedule.
00:41:13:22 - 00:41:37:17
Unknown
Notice how I would do something like So what's the plan for today then? Like I'm asking you to like, well, let's come back to the objective here because not sure that we're going to get there right? Yeah, that's exactly it. And Mike, going back to some of the other items you had in that list, actually, I did want to cuss.
00:41:37:19 - 00:42:05:05
Unknown
I didn't want to touch upon the recognition and reward piece because of which I think is in line with this kind of let's call it feedback loop celebration and so on. Because actually, I think that's something that we've discussed in the past as being quite an important aspect to build into our you know, collaborations, isn't it? The idea of really recognizing people and rewarding them maybe just with a little bit of feedback, positive feedback.
00:42:05:07 - 00:42:34:19
Unknown
It goes a long way, doesn't it? Yeah, it really does. I think the best way I can describe it is from a growth mindset point of view is should always recognize the effort. So great that you ran your five K yesterday. You are keeping the promise you made to yourself. You should feel really satisfied, you should feel really confident because you're doing the things you've promised yourself and that means you can sleep well at night.
00:42:34:21 - 00:42:58:19
Unknown
That's the kind of way to really reward that accountability and to, you know, to have the courage to to soldier on and talking about courage. Mark, I think it's only appropriate that we end the show with one of our all time superstars, Miss Brené Brown, wouldn't you say? Yeah, I totally agree. One of our very, very popular moonshots that we've covered in the past, Ms..
00:42:58:19 - 00:43:26:20
Unknown
Brené Brown, is now going to close out our show. Mike, even though we've covered such a huge amount already, let's hear from Brené Brown this time, who's now going to dig in a little bit further into the idea of key skills, but specifically focus on the courage that it takes to develop others. I define a leader as any person who holds themselves accountable for finding the potential in people and processes and has the courage and the guts to develop that potential.
00:43:27:00 - 00:43:49:05
Unknown
And that's all of us. I mean, we're just I recently asked Jon Meacham, I said, what would you say to people who don't think they're leaders? And he then you don't understand democracy. We all have to lead. And so I just I loved that. I think we're all leaders. I've interviewed all of these people and trying to find you studied leaders and you try to find patterns.
00:43:49:07 - 00:44:06:23
Unknown
What are a few patterns that you always see showing up and good leaders. Yeah, this was the shock for me. In fact, this was my this is my 20th 23rd year as a researcher and this is a ten year study, and it was the first study I'd ever done where the answers across all of the research participants was the same.
00:44:06:23 - 00:44:28:16
Unknown
So what we asked was really straightforward from Special Forces military to creatives to all over the world, NGOs, We asked, What's the future of leadership? Who's going to be leading in five years, ten years, and who's going to be gone? And the answer was, we need braver leaders. And so when we drilled into What does that mean? I mean, I love the word great, I love the word courage, but they're gauzy.
00:44:28:16 - 00:44:50:22
Unknown
Like, what does that mean? Yeah, it came down to four skill sets, the ability to rumble with vulnerability. That means when things get uncertain and hard, we don't tap out. We don't tap out of hard conversations. We don't tap out of feedback, giving it a receding net. The second thing is that we really learn how to live up to our values.
00:44:50:22 - 00:45:11:18
Unknown
I mean, the most daring leaders we've talked to are very clear not only about what their values are, but also what the behaviors are that support those values. Like there are a lot of big fine leadership words like integrity, but like if I walk into another organization and see an integrity like poster with an eagle eye, what does that look like?
00:45:11:18 - 00:45:34:21
Unknown
What is like, what's that? I don't know what it means. You were on SkyMall and you were bored and you go, ten the SkyMall? No, SkyMall. And you don't know what it means. So these leaders have operationalized it into behaviors that they hold themselves accountable for. The third thing is building trust. Talking explicitly about trust has no trust, no no teams, no good work.
00:45:34:23 - 00:46:13:06
Unknown
And the last one is huge. And I learned this from working with a lot of professional sports teams. You've got to know how to reset that after failure or disappointment and and setbacks. You got to learn how to get back up when you fall, because that's part of being brave, getting back up. Mark, I mean, we cannot say enough about getting back up because we learned from people like Serena Williams and many great athletes and beyond that, it's the best leaders of those that choose to get up after a failure, after a challenge, after not getting the world champs, after not getting the pitch, the bid.
00:46:13:08 - 00:46:37:06
Unknown
It's those that keep going, because if we give up, we ain't got the courage. If we give up, then we're giving in to vulnerability and we're all at war with vulnerability. It's those that can push through it because we all experience it. We can then open that up and we can all become leaders. Mark that is a big swinging final clip for the show, my friend.
00:46:37:08 - 00:47:00:24
Unknown
Yeah, don't you think? I mean, we heard about vulnerability there, which was obviously in some of the other clips as well, values that we've got to hold ourselves accountable for as well as drive and strive for them, amongst others, and trust Mike it all comes down to trust, doesn't it? And I think the only way for us to achieve trust amongst each other, as well as those around us, is by lowering the barriers.
00:47:01:01 - 00:47:20:22
Unknown
Have those conversations be kind to each other, be vulnerable, as Brené says? Yes. How essential. And it's very much in line with this old versus new styles of leadership. You don't have to be perfect as a leader. You can say, I have no idea how we're going to solve this, or I just think I made a really big mistake.
00:47:20:24 - 00:47:47:15
Unknown
Like, this is so untypical of what we considered to be appropriate for a leader. But actually, when you see it, like you look at guys who are very much servant leaders like Sachin Nadella, I mean, Microsoft's now the biggest, highest valued market cap company on the planet. Microsoft has had a real renaissance under him and he's really into growth mindset and leadership.
00:47:47:15 - 00:48:10:22
Unknown
So I think the evidence is there, Mark, for such a big show where we covered some real heavyweights. What's the homework assignment for Matt Pearson? Freeland I think the homework is on for me. My is I mean, I could pick the idea of bouncing back from failures as we heard from Brant at the end. But I could pick the behavior and getting in the gym.
00:48:10:24 - 00:48:30:20
Unknown
But actually, Mike, I'm going to go back to Patrick Lindsay only. I think for me this accountability is a topic that I keep on coming back to in the show. I think holding myself accountable and asking others to hold me accountable while also putting myself in a position where I can help others inspire one another. That's my homework.
00:48:31:01 - 00:49:11:08
Unknown
As I go back into the business to work with colleagues. That's the area that I think I'm going to really lean into. How about you, Mike? What's the big homework assignment today? I think I'm on with this one. I'm really I you know, it was interesting when I was explaining how I make coffee for my wife every morning, I could probably do a better job of having working in the gym of leadership by doing more things more regularly for the people around me, as opposed to when there's a problem jumping in to help fix it.
00:49:11:10 - 00:49:40:02
Unknown
Maybe I can make that, that. And I also think like you don't be a worse as glazed see and said have the crucial conversations. my gosh. And the entire linkage between Brené talking about trust. Patrick talks about trust, crucial conversations, working on it continuously. my gosh. Putting people, others before yourselves. These amateur MIT amateur moonshots mindsets aren't they?
00:49:40:04 - 00:50:09:00
Unknown
Yeah, absolutely. It's amazing. Mike, how many consistent threads, the DNA I know of life that we keep on learning. You seeing how many crossovers there are, It's wild. It's so valuable to learn out loud to really dig into each of these individuals as well as these topic each week. Because I think we're slowly much like, you know, James C Hunter was saying, getting in the gym, we're getting stronger, we're learning and that's what it's all about here, isn't it?
00:50:09:05 - 00:50:36:01
Unknown
Yeah, you're absolutely right. So I want to say thank you to you, Mark, and thank you to you, our members and subscribers here on the moonshots series, Episode 30 on the hot topic of servant leadership. And we started with Mr. Simon Sinek, who explained that leaders do in fact eat last and by doing so create a whole wealth of servant leadership and teamwork as a result.
00:50:36:03 - 00:50:59:03
Unknown
Then we went to the highly caffeinated Jesse Hunter and he told us that leadership is a muscle that needs to be worked regularly. And then we deviated across to Mr. Petulant, saying Mr. Teamwork himself said, Don't be a wuss, have those crucial conversations. And we brought it all home with Mr. Brené Brown, and she told us that it's the courage to develop others, to be vulnerable and to get back up.
00:50:59:03 - 00:51:18:09
Unknown
When you've fallen down, do these things and you'll be able to be the best version of yourself, do these things and do them and learn out loud together with Mark and myself. And you will truly do great things. You will shoot to the moon and beyond. All right, that's a wrap.