Secrets of Product Discovery from Successful Entrepreneurs
Episode 22
Product discovery is the process of discovering, defining, and validating a new product idea or an enhancement to an existing product. It's a critical phase for entrepreneurs because it helps them identify and understand the problems and needs of their target customers, enabling them to build products that solve those problems effectively.
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Here are some reasons why product discovery is essential for entrepreneurs:
Identifying customer needs: The product discovery process involves conducting market research and gathering feedback from potential customers. This helps entrepreneurs understand their customers' needs, pain points, and preferences, which are crucial in developing a product that meets their expectations.
Reducing risks: By conducting product discovery, entrepreneurs can validate their product ideas before investing significant time and resources into building the product. This helps reduce the risk of making a product that nobody wants, which could result in wasted resources and failure.
Improving product-market fit: Product discovery helps entrepreneurs ensure that their product meets the target market's needs. This increases the likelihood of product-market fit, where the product satisfies the market's needs and generates demand.
Increasing customer satisfaction: A well-designed product that meets the target customers' needs is likely to result in higher customer satisfaction. This can lead to positive reviews, repeat business, and word-of-mouth marketing, which are essential for the success of any startup.
In conclusion, product discovery is a critical process for entrepreneurs that enables them to develop products that meet the needs of their target customers, reduce risks, achieve product-market fit, and increase customer satisfaction.
RUNSHEET
Reed Hastings says that in business, we should all work at delivering the most joy possible to our customers - then they’ll stay with us
Always Deliver Joy_PN (42s)
Bob Iger reflects on Steve Jobs, and how even the smallest detail - if well done - contributes a tremendous amount of value to the whole
Strive For Perfection_PN (1m13)
Tony Fadell has a major insight in how not to take shortcuts, even if it goes against your investors
Look closer_PN (4m30)
Marty Cagan talks about four keys to great product strategy: focus, insights, empowerment, servant leadership
Secrets to great product strategy_PN (4m08)
Bill Carr, author of Working Backwards, talks about building products with Jeff Bezos, as well as the PRFAQ
Working Backwards Process_PN (3m14)
Tony Fadell talks about making a decision, based on research and experience, and when to start a company or build a product
Going from Idea to Product (2m02)
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Mike Parsons: Hello and welcome to the Moonshots Master Series. It's episode 22. I'm your co-host Mike Parsons, and as always, I'm joined by Mr. Mark Pson Freeland. Good morning,
[00:00:21] Mark Pearson Freeland: mark. Hey, good morning, Mike. Good morning, members and listeners. Boy do we have an exciting brand new master series episode to slot into your libraries and to enter into your ears today.
[00:00:34] Mark Pearson Freeland: What a topic ahead, Mike.
[00:00:36] Mike Parsons: Well, we have to, uh, have full disclosure here, mark. This is a topic very close to our hearts. We have worked together for years creating, building, launching brand new products, often of the technical type, you know, in browsers or on mobile phones, and. I gotta say this master series I'm fired up about.
[00:00:57] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, I totally agree, Mike. We've done a heap of master series. We've delved into what motivates us and how to design our lives, but today, Mike, we're going into the, uh, the studio, we're getting out the sores and the equipment and the tools, and we are digging into product discovery secrets and how to create, uncover and maybe even launch your products and your businesses.
[00:01:25] Mike Parsons: Well, I dunno what kind of digital products you are thinking about Matt with hammers, nails and sores. But I'm a, I'm gonna go with her. I'm an easy kind of a guy. But you're, you're absolutely right. Like we often will talk about personal transformation and, and you do bring up a good point, like why are we talking about product discovery?
[00:01:42] Mike Parsons: And I think that so much of what we focus on is the challenge and the journey of entrepreneurship. It's really, it's a great sport that challenges you, kind of forces you to bring out the best version of yourself. And most of where our western economy is taking us is as knowledge workers, building services and products in the digital realm.
[00:02:09] Mike Parsons: So being able to discover new products is at the very heart of what we're gonna do together today. And Mark, we are going to some stellar. Superstars, like I am pretty fired up about this assortment eclipse you've put together.
[00:02:23] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, you're totally right. We've really tried to accomplish a full category of not only inspiration as well as some pieces of information really to drive a level of understanding when it comes to product discovery and the secrets that have, that have held out across some of these big industry eths that are out there.
[00:02:46] Mark Pearson Freeland: And we've got a quite a number of unique individuals that we're gonna dive into today, Mike. But the question is, do you think you and I, our listeners and our members already for clip number one,
[00:02:57] Mike Parsons: I think they are. And I think, you know, the, the, the FairWarning that, that you've given them is there's gonna be a lot of inspiration.
[00:03:03] Mike Parsons: But equally we are actually gonna get into the real techniques, uh, of what it takes to build a killer app, to build a brand new product or a service. And we're gonna hear from people that have worked on. I dunno. Netflix, Disney, apple, you name it. We are going to some serious heavyweights, but we're not just gonna celebrate their products.
[00:03:26] Mike Parsons: We're actually going to reveal how they did it. And Mark, where we start there is nowhere more appropriate than this first clip, right?
[00:03:36] Mark Pearson Freeland: That's right. This first clip is from one of the, uh, Cocos and founders of the, uh, I would say Mike, one of the, arguably the biggest brands, at least from a household name perspective that we all know.
[00:03:48] Mark Pearson Freeland: It makes up a startling 230 million subscribers as of this year. So maybe that's enough teasing. Let's hear from the man himself. Mr. Reed Hastings, founder of Netflix. Tell us why he, when he's creating products and businesses. Always wants to deliver joy. We collect
[00:04:07] Mike Parsons: this year about 8 billion of customers money.
[00:04:10] Mike Parsons: So thank you, all of you for giving us your money. And what we do is we say that money's in trust. To create joy, we have to turn that into the most joy possible. And so we look and we say for every show, if a show costs a hundred million dollars, how much joy, how much viewing did it create amongst all of you?
[00:04:27] Mike Parsons: Uh, if it costs 50 million or 200 million, of course you want different amounts of joy. And so we look at it as how much joy can we create of your money? And if we turn it into joy effectively, then you're happy and you tell your friends and we grow and then we have more money next year to turn into more joy.
[00:04:44] Mike Parsons: So we're, we think of ourself like alchemist. We take in money and outcomes. Joy, the joy to the world is their mission. Mark. It, it's kind of, I know sometimes we might think it's like c e o hyperbole when they talk about joy. But I think you need something like that. You need a north star. You need to just do it.
[00:05:07] Mike Parsons: You need to think different. You need to bring joy. And in a funny way, even when I watch some of these really gritty, uh, series on Netflix, I mean joy is like maybe a stretch, but they're so engaging and captivating. Uh, I just watched, uh, recently the behind the scenes, uh, post the Boston Marathon bombing and how they actually used all the, all of these techniques to find, uh, the guys behind it and.
[00:05:41] Mike Parsons: Man that was really captivating and we sat and we en really enjoyed it and we were all discussing it. So they are a big part of our lives. I mean, 230 million people. And what is so fascinating, yes, there's business being done. Yes, there's strategy and there's tactics, and there's like, they're putting in internet appliances at the exchanges to make the streaming better.
[00:06:04] Mike Parsons: But the focal point, the central point is are we bringing joy? And I think this is a pattern that we see all the time having a North Star, like I said, just do it. I just watched, uh, the air movie on the signing of Michael Jordan, which was really good with Ben, Matt Damon, captivating, just do it. Think about, uh, Steve Jobs and Cupertino and what they did around thinking differently, bringing joy in Netflix's case.
[00:06:34] Mike Parsons: I truly believe there is a pattern and that is that great products that truly come in and disrupt, always have a big vision. They are always on a mission to really radically change the world, and sometimes it starts with the little bookstore and then you become one of the biggest retailers on the planet.
[00:06:51] Mike Parsons: Mark, how do you kind of interpret the lesson here and the pattern that we see around having these big product visions? I think it really
[00:06:59] Mark Pearson Freeland: speaks to me. When I compare the idea of starting a business as unique as Netflix, you know, there was a study that I read by News 10 who states that Netflix is preferred by nearly 50%, so specifically 47% of Americans over other streaming platforms, which is pretty substantial based on how many there are out there now.
[00:07:22] Mike Parsons: And to your point, think about it though, mark put it into a different industry. Imagine if you are a, a burger joint or a pizza joint, and you, and you had basically half of America saying, that's my preference,
[00:07:34] Mark Pearson Freeland: and you couldn't necessarily claim that people would vote in the same way for a brand like your iPhone.
[00:07:42] Mark Pearson Freeland: Or Google Android. I don't imagine that the statistics are quite as substantial as that, which I think is quite a unique, interesting, um, analysis when it comes to preference. Hmm. And I think what Reid's really speaking to and the's two things that, that are sparking my curiosity there. First, one of which is his single-minded vision to go after creating an enjoyable experience for customers with the assumption that they will then go out and recommend the product to others.
[00:08:10] Mark Pearson Freeland: Mm-hmm. You know, the idea of word of mouth and referrals is so substantial, particularly in, um, a a, an industry in a vertical as complicated or as, uh, busy as perhaps video streaming and
[00:08:21] Mike Parsons: competitive. Mark thinking about competitive, I mean, we're gonna hear from some of his competitors, in fact, two of them later in this show.
[00:08:28] Mike Parsons: But, Starting a streaming channel, uh, like you were one in 1,000,010 years ago, but right now, uh, to think like how much well funded competition he had. Remember he was a startup. Mm-hmm. But there were two other little companies that started before net Netflix called Amazon and Net. Amazon and, um, help me out here.
[00:08:51] Mike Parsons: Amazon and Disney. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. Gotta get my parts of America. I'm going from San Jose to Cupertino to Los Angeles and back again. But check this out. In the end of the day, they have continued to grow like crazy despite the fact everybody else is getting in on the industry. I mean, paramount has their own channel.
[00:09:11] Mike Parsons: BBC is launching channels, everyone's launching channels, and they're still doing it. And I believe. It is gotta be something more than just good tech in exactly the same way. Apple and Nike. I mean, Nike has great tech in its shoes. Apple has great tech in its hardware, but there has to be an idea, something bigger.
[00:09:34] Mike Parsons: And joy is what he puts on the board for them to always be able to sit. When you're looking at a preview and you're trying to decide, do we buy or do we make this, will it bring joy? Will it bring enough joy? I often think that when your business grows, it has to be that damn simple. Yeah. Like a big idea.
[00:09:54] Mike Parsons: Is this really encouraging people to think do it? Is this turning everyone into an athlete? You know, s Starbucks became immensely f immensely famous for this idea of the third space. A place you can decompress before or after work, but before you get home. Right? So these ideas. Uh, what creates some sort of magic halo effect around a business?
[00:10:17] Mike Parsons: You might say this vision is really the starting point for that, that brand magic that, that companies have, that that sort of slightly intangible thing that makes you always buy a Starbucks and Apple. Go to Amazon, go to Netflix above the other alternatives. And isn't it crazy though, that when we talk about how to discover a great product, how to make something that really matters?
[00:10:45] Mike Parsons: It is about like the hard work of knowing how to make a computer work, how to build a running soon. But you also need vision,
[00:10:53] Mark Pearson Freeland: don't you, ma? Yeah. And this really brings me onto the next, I suppose, inspirational insight that I got from that Reid Hastings clip, which is how much awareness he has with regards to their ultimate purpose and, and or said differently, uh, Simon Sinex, uh, golden circle.
[00:11:12] Mark Pearson Freeland: That's right. You know what, they know what they're doing and how they're doing it. You know, fundamentally, they, everybody knows what they're doing and it's the, the product that they sell, it's Netflix and they understand how they're doing it. Like you say, it's the infrastructure, it's the marketing. It's all sorts of the unique ways that Netflix have back in the backend to make them a little bit special.
[00:11:32] Mark Pearson Freeland: But knowing that why, I think is exactly, to your point, Mike, what sets them apart? It's. Their purpose of, uh, keeping the lights going and, and trying to onboard as many customers as possible. Without that, without this insight from Reid about them trying to create and deliver joy for their customers, it would seem as though it's just yet another, um, platform that's vying for attention and they're creating products that they themselves like.
[00:12:00] Mark Pearson Freeland: Whereas if you put yourself into a consumer shoes as we are, and 47% of Americans would prefer Netflix over other streaming sites as well, is that they're successful. They're succeeding at that. Yeah.
[00:12:12] Mike Parsons: I think hopefully this inspiration gets all of our members really thinking about. Whatever they're working on, whether it's a project, something in their community, a product, a service, a business, whatever it's on.
[00:12:25] Mike Parsons: Do you have that? Why do you have that vision? Because I know what we're here to do is to learn out loud together in order to be the best version of ourselves. And Mark, we have a ton of members that we want to tip the hat to who are doing
[00:12:39] Mark Pearson Freeland: just that. Limi we do This list is, is always surprising Mike, and it gets longer every time.
[00:12:46] Mark Pearson Freeland: And again, we're gonna have to one day extend the Master Series episodes by perhaps another hour. So please welcome without further ado all of our fantastic members and subscribers, including Bob, John, Terry Maral and Ken Dimar, Marja and Connor, Liz, Sid, Mr. Bonura, Paul Berg Cowman, and David Joe Crystal, Ivo, and Christian.
[00:13:09] Mark Pearson Freeland: All of our annual members, as well as Sam, Barbara, Andre, and Eric, Chris, Debra Lase, Steve Craig, Daniel Andrew, and Ravi Yvette, Karen Row, and PJ Niko, Ola Ingram, and Dirk, Emily, Harry, Karthik and Vanatta, mark, jet. Roger, Steph Ga, Anna Raw, Neen, James, Eric, Diana, Wade, Amanda Deep Breath, as well as our brand new members who are joining us today.
[00:13:39] Mark Pearson Freeland: Denise Christoff Andreza. Thank you so much for joining us and being part of the Moon Shots and Master series subscriber base.
[00:13:48] Mike Parsons: Thank you indeed. We really are grateful to you, our members, uh, helping us produce, build and distribute this show. And in particular, this master series is just for you. This is not for the regular listeners.
[00:14:01] Mike Parsons: This is only for the members. So we really do hope that you're enjoying it and we are very grateful for your support and. I think, you know, in line with that support that you are giving us, let's now work together. You, me, all of the listeners together, let's kind of challenge ourselves. Let's step it up a little bit.
[00:14:21] Mike Parsons: Let's hear from Bob Iger of Disney, who is gonna challenge us to go to another level. First of all,
[00:14:28] Bob Iger: there's a Japanese word, which he didn't teach me. I discovered in a documentary about a sushi chef in Tokyo called Chopin, which is the relentless pursuit of perfection. Mm-hmm. Uh, the, I, I've never worked with anyone or seen anyone up close.
[00:14:44] Bob Iger: That embodied that than Steve Jobs. He believed that perfection mostly in the product that they created, had incredible value. And it, that was a core value to Apple as a for instance. Um, he had talk about guts and the ability to take chances. Phenomenal. Yeah. Phenomenal. And the, um, perseverance often required, particularly in the face of tremendous pessimism.
[00:15:12] Bob Iger: Yeah. Uh, he was quite something there. He,
[00:15:16] Mike Parsons: um, Yeah,
[00:15:18] Bob Iger: he also had an incredible designer's eye, and I've worked with people before who have taste, but he could hone in on the most minute detail and understand that even the smallest detail, if well done, contributes a tremendous amount of value
[00:15:38] Mike Parsons: to the whole, to
[00:15:39] Mark Pearson Freeland: the whole.
[00:15:40] Mark Pearson Freeland: Mike. I think one of the key things I'm really hearing from that exciting, um, and revealing clip from Bob Iger as he's reflecting on Steve Jobs, is that reference to mindset, the idea that, uh, Steve Jobs had with regards to resilience, with regards to that relentless pursuit and that striving for perfection.
[00:16:02] Mark Pearson Freeland: I think what it demonstrates to me is just how, again, perhaps similar to Reid, single-minded and focused, they were as a business as well as business leaders to try out, to try and go and strive to get the end goal that they had in mind, specifically the product that they wanted to launch. This idea of mindset, uh, resilience, um, strategy in order to try and achieve that.
[00:16:27] Mark Pearson Freeland: Isn't it amazing how we've run into it before with, uh, moonshot's unique individuals such as Elon Musk, who was struggling, but also striving against everybody, telling him, no, you can't go and do this, can't do that, and he was so. Obsessed and relentless with his pursuit to go out and do it. And he invested all his money.
[00:16:50] Mark Pearson Freeland: He's still in headlines every day. Oh my gosh.
[00:16:53] Mike Parsons: Is, is he ever not in the headlines these
[00:16:55] Mark Pearson Freeland: days, right? But isn't it amazing how we can make this relationship between mindset, desire, um, pursued across into a business and product space because they are one and the same? You've, uh, business doesn't survive without individuals.
[00:17:14] Mark Pearson Freeland: So fundamentally, the best ones perhaps are the ones who have a unique individual at the front, such as Reid, who's always striving to delivering joy. Steve Jobs, striving for perfection with the roles and the products that they pump out. Isn't it unique and interesting that already we're starting to find perhaps this little secret whereby you need to have that single-minded goal and focused in order to try and keep yourself on track?
[00:17:40] Mike Parsons: Yeah. Like, um, I think there's something in this that we can drill down in which relates to the first clip, like I think the only way that you can be relentless, and I'm kind of thinking out loud here a bit like, I think the only way you can really be relentless and just really to strive for perfection.
[00:18:03] Mike Parsons: Meaning that even when you're having a bad day, even when you're having a busy day, you still strive for perfection. I think that only comes if you buy into the vision of the business because from that, you get your purpose, you get your belief, you get that special energy to rise above and beyond your calling and, and put in the extra work and this striving for perfection.
[00:18:32] Mike Parsons: We see this with people like Michael Jordan as well. He was so obsessed. With being the best and beating his competitors that he strove for perfection. And, and we've commented on this a lot. He worked so hard at practice, which is this one opportunity where a lot of players are like, oh, well it's only practice, right?
[00:19:02] Mike Parsons: I'll, I'll, I'll keep some in the tame for the game on the weekend. But what we learned from a lot of these superstars is that they shine on the weekends cuz they did the work at practice during the week. They strove for perfection in practice. So the game kind of feels a bit easier, right? It looks so natural, right?
[00:19:24] Mike Parsons: That's what happens when you put it in. So I think this is like a great moment for us to reflect on not only having purpose, like we heard from Reid Hastings. Having this big idea, this big vision of what you're trying to do. In his case, bringing joy to the world through Netflix. But then when we go to looking at Bob Iger and what he observed in his time in working with Steve Jobs was the obsession with doing it right.
[00:19:52] Mike Parsons: We don't cut the corners. Mm. And I believe this is why you pick up an iPad or a MacBook or an iPhone, and it still has the work in it that you don't get with other laptops, with other phones, you don't get, certainly with other watches, there is a certain striving for perfection. And do you know what's really interesting, mate?
[00:20:15] Mike Parsons: Is when Apple has one of their rare misses. Like for example, um, several years ago they launched the first iteration of Apple Maps and it was terrible. Part of the uproar is that it is so rare. That we get less than perfection. Like we're so used to opening the box from Apple and it's so beautiful. We're so used to it feeling good in our hands, and then they ship bad software and everyone's like freaking out because he build a cultures of striving for perfection.
[00:20:47] Mike Parsons: That's so permeates the business. They release one band product and the world's up in arms.
[00:20:53] Mark Pearson Freeland: You, you're totally right. And isn't that a surprise, you know, sometimes if we go back to Reid when they, you know, obviously with that amount of content, there's the occasional one that, you know, perhaps is better suited for, uh, a different type of audience than myself.
[00:21:08] Mark Pearson Freeland: What I still respect though is the fact that they are pumping out good quality content regardless of who it's aimed at. That's right. And you're right. It when a, a brand who is a single-minded and focused as Apple end up. Releasing something that perhaps should have been a little bit more tested. Mm-hmm.
[00:21:25] Mark Pearson Freeland: Or maybe you just don't understand why they've bothered to do it. Mm-hmm. It does. It makes you stand back and, and wander, doesn't it? We're so ingrained with good quality products coming from these brands that sometimes when they do have a, uh, when they do miss Oh yeah. It's,
[00:21:40] Mike Parsons: it's bizarre, isn't it? Yeah.
[00:21:42] Mike Parsons: Yeah. So I think we've laid a very good platform of vision, of commitment, of really pushing yourself, uh, to discover products. And hopefully you can see already there's a bit of a secret here. Having that big idea, striving perfe for perfection. This is how they do it at Disney, apple, and Netflix. Now we kind of can make a transition.
[00:22:06] Mike Parsons: Behind the scenes and, you know, we just heard from Bob Iger, Anne Reid Hastings. Just as a, a production note for all of you members, we have done shows dedicated to each of those gentlemen. So head over to Moonshots, do io and just pick up that, um, that show that we, you'll find in our archive. We are now gonna turn to two gentlemen, both of whom we have done shows on as well.
[00:22:32] Mike Parsons: So you get to see the whole collection working together now. Now we're gonna go deep into, into someone who is there with Steve Jobs, building the iPod, building the iPhone, and we're also gonna hear from some what I consider to be one of the best, uh, product management gurus as well. So let's start with a guy called Tony Fidel, and he's gonna get us to challenge us.
[00:22:57] Mike Parsons: He's gonna give us a technique of going deeper, of going further what he calls. Looking closer.
[00:23:05] Tony Fadell: One of my greatest teachers was my grandfather. He taught me all about the world. He taught me how things were built and how they were repaired, the tools and techniques necessary to make his successful project.
[00:23:21] Tony Fadell: I remember one story he told me about screws and about how you need to have the right screw for the right job. There are many different screws, wood screws, metal screws, anchors, concrete screws. The list went on and on. Our job is to make products that are easy to install for all of our customers themselves without professionals.
[00:23:46] Tony Fadell: So what did we do? I remembered that story that my grandfather told me, and so we thought, how many different screws could we put in the box? Was it gonna be 2, 3, 4, 5? Because there's so many different wall types. So we thought about it, we optimized it, and we came up with. Two different, three different screws to put in the box.
[00:24:07] Tony Fadell: We thought that was gonna solve the problem, but it turned out it didn't. So we shipped it and shipped the product and people weren't having a great experience. So what did we do? We went back to the drawing board just instantly after we figured out we didn't get it right and we designed a special screw, A custom screw, much to therin of our investors.
[00:24:30] Tony Fadell: They were like, why are you spending so much time on a little screw? Get out there and sell more. And we said, we will sell more if we get this right. And it turned out we did with that custom little screw, there was just one screw in the box was easy to mount and put on the wall. So if we focus on those tiny details, the ones we might, or that we may not see, And we look at them and we say, are those important or tho or, or is that the way we've always done it?
[00:25:01] Tony Fadell: Maybe there's a way to get rid of those. So my last piece of advice is to think younger. Every day I'm confronted with interesting questions for my three young kids. They come up with questions like, why can't cars fly around traffic? Or Why don't my shoelaces have Velcro instead? Sometimes those questions are smart.
[00:25:28] Tony Fadell: My son came to me the other day and I asked him, Hey, go run out to the mailbox and check it. He looked at me puzzled and said, why doesn't the mailbox just check itself and tell us when it has mail?
[00:25:43] Mike Parsons: I was like,
[00:25:45] Tony Fadell: that's a pretty good question. So they can ask tons of questions, and sometimes we find out we just don't have the right answers.
[00:25:55] Tony Fadell: We say, son, that's just the way the world works. So the more we're exposed to something, the more we get used to it. But kids haven't been around long enough to get used to those things. And so when they run into problems, they tr immediately try to solve them and sometimes they find a better way, and that way really is better.
[00:26:19] Tony Fadell: So my advice and that we take to heart is to have young people on your team or people with young minds, because if you have those young minds, they cause everyone in the room to think younger. Picasso once said, every child is an artist. The problem is, is when she or she grows up, is how to remain an artist.
[00:26:45] Tony Fadell: We all saw the world more clearly when we saw it for the first time before a lifetime of habits got in the way. Our challenge is to get back to there, to feel that frustration, to see those little details, to look broader, look closer, and to think younger so we can stay beginners. It's not easy. It requires us pushing back against one of the most basic ways we make sense of the world, but if we do, we can do some pretty amazing things for me.
[00:27:19] Tony Fadell: Hopefully that's better product design for you. That could mean something else, something powerful.
[00:27:29] Tony Fadell: Our challenge is to wake up each day and say,
[00:27:32] Mike Parsons: how can I experience the world better?
[00:27:36] Mark Pearson Freeland: Mike, we're getting two pretty interesting, unique stories as well as insights from Mr. Tony Fidel, who led teams, as you've already mentioned, that created the IPO iPhone as well as we heard within that clip, the Nest, uh, learning thermostat.
[00:27:53] Mark Pearson Freeland: I particularly like that story that Tony tells us around the screws,
[00:27:58] Mike Parsons: oh, coming with the product. How good was that? Right? Because, you know, you always, you like, if you think about, if you build a product of 10 things and each of those things you just did, the way we've always done it, What's the chance of those 10 things coming together to be something amazing like zero.
[00:28:15] Mike Parsons: Right. Exactly. It's such a powerful metaphor, isn't it? It is. And
[00:28:19] Mark Pearson Freeland: what I also really liked about it was just from a practical perspective as a customer receiving a product similar to like, we've all been through a process of putting together IKEA furniture and you know, that anxiety that kicks in at the end when you realize I've still got a load of screws where, where
[00:28:38] Mike Parsons: were they meant to go?
[00:28:39] Mike Parsons: Or it's a bit wonky. That's usually what happens when I do it. And, and
[00:28:43] Mark Pearson Freeland: that's such a, a, a questioning reaction for a consumer to have when they're putting together your product because it makes them judge whether they've done it correctly or not. And there's nothing more frustrating is there than being put into a position where you are questioning your abilities.
[00:29:01] Mark Pearson Freeland: And what I really like about Tony's approach here, As he was telling us is the fact that no matter what everybody else was saying, the investors were pushing back against the amount of money that it would cost to go and develop a, a screw that could fit multiple walls, rather than sending out, you know, half a dozen that then any customer could put into their walls anywhere in the world.
[00:29:23] Mark Pearson Freeland: I think it's a very, again, going back to what we were hearing at the first 20 minutes or so of the show, striving for perfection. Tony is putting that into practice here. He's taking that advice from Bob Iger as well as Reid Hastings, where we're trying to deliver joy and as well as create a perfect product that a customer wants to try and experience.
[00:29:45] Mark Pearson Freeland: And he's putting it into action, don't you think?
[00:29:48] Mike Parsons: I think he's not only putting it into action. I think if you are close enough to the user and you see them struggling to put your device on the wall, I believe it's the courage to say, Yeah, this doesn't look very easy, guys, even though you're like, look, we built the thermostat.
[00:30:08] Mike Parsons: We're not really a screw company. We're like hardware, you know, like operating system circuits and all that good stuff. It's, I think having the presence of mind not to accept all of those trade-offs that add up to like, uh, it's a bit awkward here when I ambox. Uh, the screw doesn't really work. Ah, it's really hard to fix on the screw then the app to install it is really hard.
[00:30:39] Mike Parsons: I believe what we have heard about Steve Jobs and what Tony is demonstrating is you have to look closer and I think that great product discovery is looking close at the problem and then also working very closely. With customers on the solution. So it truly is a solution. Like there's so many things in theory, sound good, but in practice they suck, right?
[00:31:08] Mike Parsons: Mm-hmm. And you can't have a product full of all of those Catch 20 twos, ah, that's not very good. This is not very good cuz you, you can't get around the fact that how many times have we had experiences where, We don't even successfully set up a product at home where we can't make it through without hitting Google, without hitting YouTube to get assistance.
[00:31:30] Mike Parsons: And maybe in this day and age, we're willing to do that once or or twice. But when the benchmark is you take your iPhone out of the box, it doesn't have a manual, and these days it'll even say, if you've got a phone, just hold your old phone next to it and we'll pair them and we'll transfer every, have you had that with an iPhone where you literally can just transfer it?
[00:31:55] Mike Parsons: I've even had it with a brand new Apple tv. They said, just scan this QR code and we'll just take all your app settings from your phone and put it straight on. And I don't have to do any data entry on my Apple tv. I'm like, oh my gosh. Fantastic. They looked closer. They looked closer because data entry on Apple TV sucks.
[00:32:14] Mike Parsons: Right? Because it's not a keyboard. So what do they do? Oh, we'll just port it from the phone so you don't have to. Brilliant.
[00:32:20] Mark Pearson Freeland: Very smart. Right. And I, and you are right to build on what you're saying there, Mike. I think it's through the collaboration as well as sense checking with customers. And sometimes that's the hardest thing, isn't it?
[00:32:31] Mark Pearson Freeland: If you want to get out of the status quo, like Tony was calling out mm-hmm. And behave perhaps, or at least think like a child again, you know, without the lifetime of habits. Uh, uh, and as well as the way the business is done getting in the way of, of creating and thinking like that. You are right. I think there is a great deal of, uh, work you can do with the customers in order to uncover that.
[00:32:54] Mike Parsons: And, you know, I think we should talk a little bit about how do we look closer? What does that look like? And I think, you know, what comes to my mind is when people describe product ideas, okay? Now I look at my mistakes in creating products and I've had like an idea or a hypothesis and I just ran with it.
[00:33:18] Mike Parsons: And all too late I realized that at least one, if not most of the hypothesis was incorrect, right? So when I meet new founders or leaders who are trying to build a new product in the enterprise and they explain to me their product idea, I deliberately really kind of slow down and imagine like, I'm like Schlock Holmes solving a puzzle.
[00:33:48] Mike Parsons: And they will describe to me, here is a customer segment. They have this problem, here's how they try and solve it. Today. I'm gonna propose a radical new way of doing it and this is how it will look and feel when they give me those data points, mark and geez, I wish they were in that nice elegant order because usually all over the place.
[00:34:11] Mike Parsons: Yeah. So they give me these, uh, data points and do you know what I do? I do not take any of those for granted. I eliminate all wishful thinking cuz I know I have a pension for wishful thinking. Right. I'm like, ah, it'd be great. Get excited, and away we go. So I think to myself, okay, they say this segment, let's say parents of kids have this problem.
[00:34:34] Mike Parsons: I'm like, well, I'm a parent. So do I see that problem? Do I, does this make sense? Do I see this in the world? Do I experience this in the world? Or perhaps they say, this is how people do it, and I'm like, eh, did they really do it that way? At the moment, I'm not sure. And then what evidence is there to suggest that that might, in fact, what the founder or the leader is proposing is in fact the, the solution?
[00:34:56] Mike Parsons: Now, here's the interesting thing. If you take Tony Fidel's, uh, advice, if you look closer, this is exactly what I think looking closer is like. You do not say sounds awesome. Let's go because how many products in the world sounded awesome and failed terribly, right? Mm-hmm. And so if there was a moment in product discovery and understanding the real secrets here, Is to really challenge yourself, whether you, it's your hypothesis for a new product or somebody else's, is to really actively listen and be really objective about what you are hearing and to say what evidence.
[00:35:41] Mike Parsons: I mean, it, it's almost, this is a, a real tangent, mark. Members go with me here. There was recently a b BBC reporter interviewing Elon Musk and the, the, the reporter said, well, since you've taken over Twitter, there's a lot more hate speech. And like Elon's like, whoa, really? Um, you know, could you give me an example?
[00:36:03] Mike Parsons: And what preceded was a conversation where the journalist couldn't cite any research or personal experience where they had witnessed hate speech. Now, What I'm just demonstrating here is what e Elon is very good at. Like very objective. Second order thinking, really going like, okay, you say that, but let's talk about you.
[00:36:29] Mike Parsons: Have you got evidence? And what's really interesting, a lot of the successful people that we're hearing today use forms and shapes of the Lean startup practice, which we've also done a master's who's on the underpinning idea of Lean Startup is have an idea, but test the living hell out of it, right? Said differently evidenced based product development.
[00:36:51] Mike Parsons: And I believe looking closer means number one is every part of your idea for a new product, service or business is to go out and test the hypothesis. And it's quite usual Mark to start with lots of variables, none of which are tested. That's fine if you have a. Bias towards learning, validating and checking for the real evidence.
[00:37:17] Mike Parsons: Then what you will discover is that maybe you need to tweak your hypothesis. We call this the pivot, right? Looking closer enables you to realize that the screw won't, A standard screw will not work for the Nest thermostat. It will then give you all the conviction in the world in front of your investors, just like Tony Fidel to go, Uhuh baby.
[00:37:39] Mike Parsons: This needs to be done because I've seen with my own eyes how hard it is to use standard screws. It would have to put like 20 screws in Takeda for all the edge cases. No, we're gonna come up with a new screw that's gonna do most of it, and it's gonna be great for our customers. It's gonna make onboarding and installation great for our customers.
[00:37:55] Mike Parsons: Cuz if they don't onboard, they don't use the product. If they don't use the product, they're not gonna be advocates. So he looked closer, so. I know this is a big rant. I'm looking closer, but I believe this is the way to do it, like Tony Fidel did at Apple at Nest, is you gotta look closer. Don't take things for granted.
[00:38:15] Mike Parsons: No wishful thinking, no guesses. Right?
[00:38:18] Mark Pearson Freeland: I think you're, you're totally right, Mike. I think the only way of building. On that is to then introduce our next clip, which is all coming from, uh, a very, very uniquely inspired individual. Perhaps a little bit like you, Mike, as an individual called Marty Kagan, who wrote a fantastic book on how to create tech products that consumers love, which I think is right in line with where you are digging into Mike really looking closer and trying to understand what makes, uh, a key difference for customers and how to avoid shortcuts.
[00:38:49] Mark Pearson Freeland: So let's hear from Marty Kagan, who's now gonna talk to us about the four Keys to great product strategy and how to create products that matter. It's
[00:38:57] Marty Cagan: still hard to do a product strategy, and I think it's because, uh, it requires four things, all four of which are hard for most companies. The first thing it requires is focus, which of course is no surprise, but, um, Many, most leadership teams really struggle to focus.
[00:39:17] Marty Cagan: They think they're focused. If they're pursuing 30, 40, 50 initiatives for the year, they think that's focus because they're only pursuing 30, 40, 50. They're not pursuing the 200 that they would like to do. So, And I have to point out to them, that is not really what we mean by focus. You are an order of magnitude.
[00:39:37] Marty Cagan: Off focus is really about picking the few things. Honestly, it's typically two or three that really make a difference for a company. And that may be things like doubling revenue or increasing our, uh, retention of our customers or reducing the churn. Same idea, but there's a few things that really make a difference.
[00:39:58] Marty Cagan: And so the first thing that's important for a strategy is focus. And as you know, especially because so many executives live by this fear of missing out fomo, that they see all these things going on in the world and they wanna try a little bit on all of 'em so that maybe one of them really hits. Of course, that's, uh, that's not a recipe for success.
[00:40:19] Marty Cagan: So the first issue is focus wise. That's one thing that's hard. The second thing that's hard is this product strategy. So you've narrowed it down to two or three really important things for the company, and now it's based on insights. We have to use our insights to tell us the best way to focus our efforts and solve these problems.
[00:40:40] Marty Cagan: Now those insights can come from quantitative, uh, they that they very often do from an analysis of the data. They can come from qualitative, like talking to our customers. They can come from in new enabling technologies. They can come from major industry trends. They can come from lots of different places.
[00:40:59] Marty Cagan: But this is another thing that most companies are not good at because they're not used to the model where they have to generate insights like this on an ongoing basis. They're used to the model where they just try to serve as many stakeholders as they can. All right. So that's the second thing they struggle with.
[00:41:17] Marty Cagan: And insights really are the key to an effective product strategy. Then the third thing product strategy requires is, you know, the purpose of the insights and the focus is to narrow down the set of problems that we need our product teams to tackle. And then we have to assign those problems to specific product teams.
[00:41:37] Marty Cagan: And of course, that's very different than how the old IT style MER works, where you give them a bunch of features to build in a roadmap. Instead, we are saying, no, you have to give them a set of problems to solve. And that's at a higher level. And this is really where empowerment comes from. An empowered product team means they're given a problem to solve, not a feature to build, and they get to figure out the best way to solve that problem.
[00:42:05] Marty Cagan: Uh, and then the final fourth, uh, Thing that companies struggle with is, um, it, it still requires management because things, as soon as a strategy is really being executed, you know, first of all, some teams make faster progress than others and the world changes. Somebody acquires something or a develop relieves or you have a dependency.
[00:42:29] Marty Cagan: You didn't realize there's a thousand things that come up. And a good strategy requires active management. But here's the key. You don't wanna undermine that empowerment, you just did by giving people teams problems to solve by micromanaging them. So the fourth thing it requires, it's hard for most companies, is managers that understand this idea of servant leadership, or basically they are there to help remove obstacles, chase down impediments, whatever is needed, but they're not there to take over and say, let me drive.
[00:43:05] Mike Parsons: Oh boy. Was that like a playbook for managing a product team or white Mark? Woo. Marty
[00:43:11] Mark Pearson Freeland: Kagan. He's coming. We coming outta the, the rafters. He's got lots of good stuff
[00:43:15] for
[00:43:15] Mike Parsons: us. He, he, he, and again, we did a full show on Marty. This is the key one. So we deliberately took one like, okay, so now you have the idea ala Tony.
[00:43:25] Mike Parsons: Fidel. Now you need to like build a team so you can build the product. And that's what we got from Marika Margan. Four things that really matter. Focus, insights, empowerment, and serving others. That's a lot. I think my quick ride through this Mark, is that really what he's talking about is that you need to really lead people by giving them clarity, but also the freedom.
[00:44:01] Mike Parsons: To make it happen, how they see fit, right? It's not a command in control, it's not old school waterfall. This is sort of the key to having really product teams with longevity, right? Mm-hmm. It's not just like, build me this feature and shut up and write the code. Now this is like, how do we solve our users problem?
[00:44:21] Mike Parsons: How do we focus on what matters to them? And, um, it really is like such a great combo of like Tony Fidel upfront, Marty on the, on the back end there. Hopefully what that's done is shown you some of the work that it is going to take to actually have the right. Product idea and to actually start building it.
[00:44:42] Mike Parsons: Those two things will go hand in hand for you. We've done shows on both them and previously, Bob iga, Reid Hastings, or we've done all of them. Head over to moonshots.ao and grab those. And as you're listening to this show, if you're really interested in some of the topics and you want to get more information, you can head to Minshaw AO and check out al show notes where you'll get links to all of these books and clips and a transcript.
[00:45:08] Mike Parsons: So you can check up on all the notes. But Mark, we ain't finished
[00:45:11] Mark Pearson Freeland: yet. No, we are not. Based on the back of Marty Kagan inspiring us to look at things with good focus, to really dig into the insights as well as, as you say, Mike, to really empower teams and serve, uh, allow them to serve themselves. We've now got a clip.
[00:45:30] Mark Pearson Freeland: As we get into the third part of our show today on Product Discovery Secrets, that's gonna help us understand some practicalities, some real tips, maybe even some habits, or maybe even some brand new ways of working that we can put into practice today to try and uncover those discovery secrets. So we're gonna hear now a clip from Bill Carr, the author of Working Backwards Again, which we've done on the show.
[00:45:53] Mark Pearson Freeland: Who's gonna tell us about working with Jeff Bezos and how the Working Backwards process works?
[00:45:59] Bill Carr: And we were spending a lot of time with Jeff and iterating on how do we. Uh, how do we conceive, how do we have a productive method for, uh, conceptualizing and debating and discussing different product ideas that we could go develop and like all these other process, uh, like all these other processes, it, it was a journey.
[00:46:20] Bill Carr: So we started off using, kind of tried intrude. Uh, techniques that we had been taught in business school, like coming in with spreadsheets that projected the size of these businesses, projected our market share, discussed the financials, discussed the kinds of deals we would make with content providers, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:46:38] Bill Carr: Uh, I, I'm sure at some point we may have even conducted a SWOT analysis where you looked at our strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats. Um, but uh, you know, we bring these, these dry sort of numbers and spreadsheets and projections into Jeff and what he would react to. He sort of would look up from, from these documents and just sort of squinted us and say, where are the mockups?
[00:47:01] Bill Carr: And what he meant by that is, this is, you know, um, somewhat useful information, but would be much more useful, is to understand what's the customer experience you intend to build. So we actually did follow up with meetings where we brought in mock-ups designs of what the website experience would be. But, um, developing a a high quality, uh, mock-up is actually a very expensive process.
[00:47:24] Bill Carr: It requires, usually more than one skilled designer requires you to actually think through a lot of details of what the product will be. Um, uh, and uh, that was quite heavyweight, so we tried that for a while, but that didn't, that didn't get us much further because we spent so much time worrying about the mockup that we weren't spending time worrying about what was the actual customer experience going to be.
[00:47:45] Bill Carr: So finally, um, Jeff proposed a different way, which was to say, why isn't everyone in this meeting? Simply write up a document describing what they think we should go build in digital media. And we did that. We went away, came back a week later with, I don't know, six or seven or eight documents that people had drafted.
[00:48:04] Bill Carr: And we read through these and we realized that we were getting somewhere. Now, because this was a much lighter weight process, one individual could on their own, write up a document to describe an end to end customer experience. They didn't require designer special skills. And secondly, um, you could very efficiently in a few hours plow through many, many different ideas, uh, and have high quality discussions about them.
[00:48:28] Bill Carr: Uh, and then he took it one step further and said, I know instead of these sort of just the, he, he, he framed and created a way to take those documents and, and formalize them as this pr fq. He said, let's write the press release and let's write that first. Because by starting at the end of the process, that's when you're actually very focused on what are the customer, um, About, about the customer and what about this product is really going to appeal to them.
[00:48:55] Bill Carr: And so that when they read this press release or read about it in the press, they'll actually want to get outta their chair and go buy it. And so when you do that, when you write the press release, you are hyper focused on what problem you're trying to solve for the customer and how this solution, this product solution, really solves it in a meaningful way
[00:49:13] Mike Parsons: working backwards.
[00:49:15] Mike Parsons: It is the big secret to Amazon's success. And I can tell you, mark, I have actually met with a bunch of folks that either do or have worked at Amazon and they truly do work backwards. In fact, I was in the US recently working with Amazon on a project and they were talking about working backwards. And I'm like, well, I just did a show on that.
[00:49:41] Mike Parsons: But this is, um, there's a couple of features to writing. Some sort of document that frames like, if, if my idea was to be successful in five years, what's that gonna look like? And I'm gonna work back from that. So it's the classical, write the New York Times article on your success in three to five years, and then let's work back.
[00:50:00] Mike Parsons: How do we get to there? So that gives you at least a line to follow. It's gonna be lots of changes and pivots along the way. But what's interesting is it, in writing about your success in the future of your product, you would need to refer to it did this and that. That's why it was successful. So by creating the relationship between this feature or helping people get this job done as a user, then that really does that.
[00:50:30] Mike Parsons: That idea of selecting what are those features that are gonna stand out to our users that are gonna delight our users. As you know, Reid Hastings will say, bring them joy. And then you're like, okay, yeah, then, then that one thing really is the thing that matters. In Amazon's case, it's all about customer convenience.
[00:50:48] Mike Parsons: It's in their vision, mission, it's in everything they do. So this is, this to me is a really good through line, but I think equally as good, mark getting out of prototypes and PowerPoints and forcing people to write. 3, 4, 5, 6 pages explaining how the product is gonna reach the success in the future, and why it matters, and how it really addresses needs of the customer and, and their long-term needs.
[00:51:21] Mike Parsons: This is worth doing. Like I, it's auto, auto, it's like a, like a automatic filtration. Like if the idea's crap, you might not even wanna write the six pager if the idea's crap and you start writing and you realize how weak your argument is, you're like, uh, maybe this isn't a great idea. Yeah. It's a forcing factor, isn't it?
[00:51:40] Mike Parsons: It's like you would only get a great six pager if the idea was good. So by sitting there and writing things out, it just makes a lot of truths come to life because it's there on the paper, doesn't it? Yeah.
[00:51:53] Mark Pearson Freeland: I'm, I mean, if I, if I take us us on a little tangent for a second. I think the benefit that a customer, sorry, that a colleague or a a, an employee gets from, The act of having to write out an idea that they have, that they wanna pitch, that they want the business to get behind.
[00:52:10] Mark Pearson Freeland: The act of actually putting that down on paper, whether it's 3, 4, 5, 6 pages long is probably as beneficial as it is when we talk about journaling. Yes. The idea of just com compartmentalizing everything in your, in your head onto a piece of paper. We've, again, spoken on the Moonshot show about the value of creating skeleton, uh, tables of contents.
[00:52:31] Mark Pearson Freeland: Mm-hmm. Or even skeleton white papers of particularly important, uh, work that you're, where we're trying to deliver together a lot of the time that will be, because it's getting all of those ideas out of our heads down onto paper, that then makes it actionable when you're stuck in your head and trying to describe the idea.
[00:52:48] Mark Pearson Freeland: I find personally I'm a little bit clumsy when I'm trying to explain an idea that I have not written down. Right. Maybe it's a great idea. The truth is nobody will know because I won't be able to necessarily communicate it correctly. And it's about pining it down, isn't it?
[00:53:04] Mike Parsons: Ironically, if you've written it all out and really crafted it, you'll know it by heart.
[00:53:09] Mike Parsons: So you'll actually explain it heaps, heaps, heaps better than what you would do if you were to like, just try and abstractly, pull together some thoughts like once you've really worked on something. You can just talk about it. It just comes, it comes naturally from you cuz you know the work, right?
[00:53:29] Mark Pearson Freeland: That's it.
[00:53:30] Mark Pearson Freeland: That's it. Once you know the work, that's where the, uh, experience as well as the research comes in, which is what we were hearing right at the start of the show. But Mike, we're not quite done yet. There's one individual that certainly has stood out for me, and that's Mr. Tony Fidel. So I think it's only right that we end this episode, this show on product Discovery secrets from hearing from Tony Fidel again.
[00:53:54] Mark Pearson Freeland: And this time he's gonna tell us specifically on how to go from an idea to a product.
[00:54:00] Mike Parsons: Amit is asking a question. After when having an idea, in my mind, what is the best practice to, to apply the idea and, and, and implement it and execute.
[00:54:12] Mark Pearson Freeland: You just start a company right
[00:54:13] Tony Fadell: away. Do you ask your parents when we did, don't ask your parents.
[00:54:18] Tony Fadell: Your parents are always gonna validate you. That's a great idea. Do never ask your parents if it's a good idea or not. Ask your, you have parents, you ask your spouse, I have great parents, but don't ask 'em because they're always gonna say, that's wonderful, honey. It's great. They, they love you unconditionally.
[00:54:32] Tony Fadell: Whether it's a good idea or a bad idea, they're gonna say it's great. You're
[00:54:34] Mark Pearson Freeland: seeing a spouse is the opposite.
[00:54:35] Tony Fadell: Spouse is the opposite. They should be, they should be truthful. That's what you want, is a great partner. So, um, no, it starts with an idea and in nest it took almost a whole year before we started the company.
[00:54:47] Tony Fadell: The way that it's first started was how might I think I could solve this problem technically? So is it, do I have enough of the pieces? Do I know enough of the things? And I said, yeah, I know that because I had enough experience on that. So you first had to research enough about what you think would be building, then after that you started researching the market.
[00:55:06] Tony Fadell: So you have to remember when you're disrupting an industry and if you have something dramatically different, and if you have disruptive technology, then you can change a stagnated market. Yes. The way that I've seen it is that you, it's, you have to start with the idea, what are you changing? And you have to take bold steps in terms of making something and trying it.
[00:55:29] Tony Fadell: Now you have to test lots of testing. So you would make something and then you would go to, uh, you know, some of the industry leaders or some of the people you really trust. Who are knowledgeable about a given area, and you'd say, what do you think? What do you think? And then you start to, to set your risk level based on how big the market is.
[00:55:48] Tony Fadell: I think the way the world changes is not by people being safe, but by challenging expectations. Challenging the conventional wisdom. And if you want to change the world, you need to get out of the, the, the, the, the area of safeness.
[00:56:02] Mike Parsons: Get out of the safety zone. Well, I think that's very true when you make a brand new product, don't you think,
[00:56:07] Mark Pearson Freeland: mark?
[00:56:07] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, I really do. Again, it speaks to the, the majority of the insights that I, I think I've particularly picked up on today. This idea of trying to go against that status quo. To create a product that really stands out. But the other thing that I think Tony is again, potentially making the case for, which we've certainly heard from, uh, bill, we've certainly heard from Marty Kagan.
[00:56:29] Mark Pearson Freeland: And that's the obsession with customers, isn't it? It is obsession with starting from what the customers trying to get out of it. What's a great customer experience? What are the frustrations that they're going to have potentially that you can foresee, which then might negatively impact their ability to become advocates to, um, tell the product, uh, recommend the product to their friends, family, and so on.
[00:56:52] Mark Pearson Freeland: This obsession with customers, I think is something that really, really stands out throughout this entire, uh, deep dive into product discovery. Don't
[00:57:02] Mike Parsons: you think? Yeah, and I, so it is, it's fascinating, isn't it? Because on one hand you have to focus on customers, you have to have a big vision. But on the other hand, you need to be prepared to face challenge.
[00:57:14] Mike Parsons: You need to be continually learning, you need to be resilient. It feels to me like building new products and discovering new products is an incredibly challenging and rewarding endeavor. It feels like a very much a proxy of life, doesn't it? I mean, yeah, it does. It's like, you know, there's always gonna be challenges if you're trying to do something meaningful.
[00:57:37] Mike Parsons: And, um, I think what we've heard today, mark, is like a really good inventory on vision, looking closer, really building great teams, working backwards and continuously learning. Those are great principles that anyone who's looking to start any new sort of community group project. Creating a new product or a service or a business, if you're doing any of those, that advice is perfect of all of those things.
[00:58:09] Mike Parsons: O Mark coming at this with, with a lot of experience, which one is gonna get your attention in this master series?
[00:58:19] Mark Pearson Freeland: I really want to continue doing what we heard from Bill Carr, which is working backwards. I, I remember that having such a, um,
[00:58:30] Mike Parsons: Profound, uh, moment
[00:58:32] Mark Pearson Freeland: with me. The idea of really questioning what it is that you're trying to do, why it's gonna benefit the customers, but more importantly, what is it actually gonna be at the end, I think is such a valuable way, or it's like getting in the car and knowing where you're driving.
[00:58:47] Mark Pearson Freeland: You don't necessarily get in the car perhaps without a map or a destination. I think having a destination in mind through the PR r FAQs, as well as working backwards process that Bill Carr was talking to us about at Amazon, I think is really substantial for me. What
[00:59:02] Mike Parsons: about you? Oh, boy. I got the list in front of me here.
[00:59:06] Mike Parsons: Let's have a look here. You know, oh, this, you know, big idea from Reid Hasting, striving for perfection, man. I can't pick a winner this time because, ooh, I'll tell you why. Because I love building a team. I love focusing on the customer. I love the personal challenge of striving for perfection and, and like, I just love it.
[00:59:28] Mike Parsons: All right? Mm-hmm. And I mean, I guess this is why my work is so, so much in product discovery and why it's so exciting to share it with yourself and all of our members. Well, mark, you know, put on the espresso, put on the seatbelt, straddle in. You are ready to go and build a product. Discover a new product that can have impact on the world, and so can all of our members too.
[00:59:52] Mike Parsons: So big thanks to you, mark. And a big thanks to our members here for episode 22 of the Master Series Product Discovery Secrets. And we heard from the biggest and the best, Reed Hastings delivering joy and having that big vision, blah, I guess, strive for perfection. Just like Steve Jobs. Tony Fidel. He went deeper.
[01:00:11] Mike Parsons: He said, you gotta look closer. And Marty said, when you're building a team that don't forget those four keys. It's all about empowerment. And as we look at practices, we can adopt immediately working backwards like Amazon and make sure, make sure that you are always learning and always building what great advice from Tony Fidel.
[01:00:33] Mike Parsons: What great advice from us here at the Moonshots Master Series, because we are all about learning out loud together. We're all about being the best version of ourselves, and we are just delighted to do that with our members. So a big thank you from Mark, a big thank you from myself. That's it for another master series.
[01:00:53] Mike Parsons: That's a wrap.