Thank you to everyone that joined us for our third live show in New York. Also, a big thanks to Makovsky for hosting us in Manhattan.

We learnt so much from our three guests:

  • Mitchell Caplan, Managing Director, US at Flock

  • Katrin Zimmermann, Managing Director, the Americas at Tlgg Consulting

  • Scott S. Williams, President at TNP

SHOW Transcript

Mike Parsons 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Moonshots podcast. There's lots of fun, cool looking hipster New York. Yeah, he said New York people, right? These Yankees they got they got hustled right?

Chad Owen 0:13

Yeah, there's Brooklynites here there's Manhattanites. There's some jersey Jersey,

Mike Parsons 0:18

Jersey crew, Connecticut. Oh my gosh, this is all four corners of New York State. Welcome, everybody. It's so good to have everybody here together for the Moonshots podcast. What a special moment for us, because we have traveled the world we've done Amsterdam, Bucharest, and now New York and, guys, I want you to give it up for our original New York boy Mr. Chad. Oh, come on, give up *inaudiable*

Chad Owen 0:52

Brooklynites here in the house.

Mike Parsons 0:55

What do we do you say peace to Brooklyn? Let me do you have special call signs. I mean, I don't know how it works in New York, you know, you just roll with it. You're going to be hipster. Cool. Just kick back.

Chad Owen 1:04

Yeah, that's what I got the monochromatic of Brooklyn look.

Mike Parsons 1:07

Okay. So here we are, we've got the Brooklyn look happening. And we have got some fabulous guests. And with each of these people were on a mission to find out not only what they've done, because they've got some amazing achievements. They've traveled afar, they've done some crazy things. Some of them are mad men, but we'll get into that in a second.

But this is our chance, also, to discover how they did it, to kind of try and learn if there were habits, if there are ways of doing things that we can all adopt for ourselves. So the mission that Chad and I are on, is really to find out how people have achieved the things that they've done in their life, to see if we can adopt some of their thoughts, some of the mental models is a common one. And we we really love to try and transfer all of that into actions that we can take things that we can do in order to be more successful, to follow our dreams to follow our passions. Now, Chad, we do have a little bit of your famous crowd surfing to do because this is a live event. You better brief, our live studio audience here, what's going to be expected of them.

Chad Owen 2:25

So after we talked to each guest, we would like for you to kind of give us your biggest insight and thing that you're taking away. And if you if you have a question, you can also ask that as well. In in all of Mike's in my podcasting, themes begin to emerge from what we are are hearing from from our guests and the people that we're learning from and talking about. So I already have a prediction. I made a prediction with Mike earlier what what tonight's theme might be, but we'll have to see if that comes to pass.

Mike Parsons 3:00

Right, So I think it's time to work welcome our first guest and for all of the online viewers, don't forget to check out moonshots.io. There you're going to find all of the archives of all of our show, we will have show notes will have an archive of this show. Lots of information there, so you can pick that up at moonshots.io. And for our studio audience might be thinking what is this strange looking device? This is actually a camera and our massive Hollywood production crew is well encapsulated here on this this device. So we've got all the modern gadgets, I think we're I think we're ready to jump in and meet our first guest.

Chad Owen 3:41


Mike Parsons 3:42

Okay. Now what I want to tell everybody is that our first guest, he's a little bit shy. So you have to give him a rousing welcome when I tell you about this person. Okay. So, Mitchell Caplan, Mitch is the MD at Flock Associates. And this man has done some amazing things. He has worked in some great agencies. He's worked with a couple of good guys in the ad industry to and we've got a lot to learn from Mitch. So would you all place show a very warm New York *inaudible*

Mitchell Caplan 4:27

The room setup makes it sound like there's a lot more people here.

Mike Parsons 4:29

That's great. That's good. See the audience at home they can actually see behind us. *inaudable*

Well, it's it's just three people sitting. Hey, Mitch,

Mitchell Caplan 4:41

Oh, nice to see you.

Mike Parsons 4:42

Yeah, you too. And I wanted to start out questions on an interesting note, you you actually studied journalism, but quickly found your way to Madison Avenue. And I really want to understand, it's almost like out of the gates, there was a big jump you made. And I would love to know, like, how did how did that happen?

Mitchell Caplan 5:04

Well, originally, I wanted to be the drummer in KISS. Well, that sort of fell to the wayside

Mike Parsons 5:11

There's still time

Mitchell Caplan 5:12

I did I do have a journalism degree from university, Maryland. But I was long story short, sitting in my fraternity house, watching TV one night, and a commercial came on went in the state of MIT for the state of Maryland. This was right around even though you call me a madman, not quite of that era. But we'll get to that in a second. Right when the seatbelt laws were starting to change, and it was a picture of a calendar with hundreds and hundreds of dots. And it faded out and faded back in and the calendar was backed up with only a couple of dots. And the voiceover said, the original voiceover said this is how many people were killed on Maryland highways last year. And when it came back in faded back in with just a couple of dots and said, this is how many were wearing seatbelts. And I thought Heck, well, it had an impact on me. And while there were other things that I was interested in doing, like writing and being a journalist, and back in the day, when the post and the times or a big deal, I thought I want to do that. So I actually went up and changed my major slightly to get a minor in marketing, and skipped a trip to Europe with my best friend the senior year, at the summer after my senior year to take a job that I was offered at an agency in Rockville, Maryland, worked in that industry in the city of Baltimore, which has a big industry. Long story short, 1993 moved to New York for girl, married somebody else, she's here and have had a 25 year run in the agency slash marketing space that has led me, small agencies, I was in the interactive space very, very early, big agencies. I was at WPP and Y&R for a long time. Six years in the private equity space and now as a consultant. So I've had a great run, it's not over yet. I've still got another kid to put through college. But it's been great and really interesting.

Mike Parsons 5:42

So I want to do time machine with you.

Mitchell Caplan 6:38


Mike Parsons 7:19

How you're sitting there. And you had you had quite a moment where you had your aha moment where you're like, oh,

Mitchell Caplan 7:26

true story. Yep.

Mike Parsons 7:27

I want to make one of those. How did you find the courage to do you know, in Silicon Valley, we would call it a pivot, you did quite a big pivot. And let's not forget it this time, advertising and editorial little journalism, that it was church and state separation, they weren't as close together as they are now. So it's not like being a buzz, buzz, feed media and walking from one desk to the other. It was like editorial is on the top floor and the ad guys are locked away down the bottom somewhere. And yeah, they want to put as many floors as possible between between all of them. Tell us a little bit how you managed to make such a jump like where did you did? Was it blind courage? How did you? How did we make jumps like that?

Mitchell Caplan 8:15

Well, the courage came in telling my parents that I wasn't going to be a lawyer. And their reaction was, we don't know anybody who does advertising. Right, which was a real thing for them. So for me, I liked to write. There was something about I, you know, I was a disc jockey in college, and I love music, I still still do, there was something about the creative side of being a professional that I was attracted to, but had no talent for. So I, I knew I wasn't going to be a creative. But I was attracted to being in an industry where you could engage with these artists and these people who created ideas. So that led me you know, in this sort of classic path of I was an account guy. When I moved to New York, I was an account guy. I got into the digital space very early and got to experience that whole iteration, that a lot of new business and other things. But the attraction of the business for me has always been those moments when you get to engage with the copywriters and the art directors and the other technologists in the last 15/20 years who create things and come up with these ideas and being in that environment has been brilliant and to have any impact on how things get created was just my small part of it.

Chad Owen 9:41

But I'm curious about what some of the big risks that you took after you made that transition. Maybe because you weren't the creative, you were pushing the creatives to do something in a new way to kind of further your goals. Working with your clients

Mitchell Caplan 10:01

I think for me when that started, so I had a very classic sort of upbringing. My first real job in the city was in the Chrysler Building at an agency called Bates, which ultimately became part of WPP in the early days. But I got a call one day from a recruiter who said I met these two guys. They started an agency called Think New Ideas, it's an interactive agency. This is 1996 when the Alley here in New York was just starting to grow and a lot of you folks will know these agencies but digitalis and Razorfish think new ideas agency.com

Mike Parsons 10:40


Mitchell Caplan 10:41

yeah, this was the very early days there was no alley, there was no startup environment. So to be in that space in 96 to 2001

Mike Parsons 10:50

It's right at the beginning of the beginning.

Mitchell Caplan 10:54

And Adam Curry, who's one of the founders of Think New Ideas was, if you look them up on Google this looking blonde guy was in the second generation of the VJ's on MTV. So after Martha Quinn and Mark Goodman, he was in that next group. But at home at night, he was writing code and he started this agency I got to experience he and his partner, Rob taking it public. And we were primarily just building websites. And the fascinating part of that was as we started to get into media, and online advertising literally started I mean, we're talking 20 years ago only. That was the most interesting moment for me, where you got in a room with both creatives and technologist and talked about what if, and what was possible. Video had wasn't really even online yet and it was just a remarkably interesting period of time, because everything next was new. And we were discovering as we went. So I was I felt really fortunate to have experienced that, that into a public offering to be part of an organisation that was doing digital first.

Mike Parsons 12:04

So I wanted to do a little follow up question. What is the skill when you've got creative people and technology people all coming together? And you love it sounds like he loved being in the room and in these moments of creation. What is the this you've developed, it's helped you go across so many different types of businesses on different sides, from digital to above line from big to small. Now, you mentioned private equity. Yeah, now you're talking about this very sophisticated advisory? What's this? All of those together? what's the what's the Mitch Caplan thing? What What do you love to do in that? And what is it? What does it look like?

Mitchell Caplan 12:52

I think what it feels like is when I was younger, I was very impulsive. I did not have a lot of patience. And I was vocal about it. And it got me in a lot of trouble. And what I've learned over the years is when it comes to the creative process, and the creativity has many paths, as you know, business strategy of a private equity firm looking at an acquisition, and advertising agency creating a campaign is to let it play out. These are on the agency side and in many other paths, folks that are artists, and brilliant at what they do and it's very infrequent where the solution comes up like that. And I think where a lot of people make the mistake, and I certainly did was, especially in the creative process in the agency world, a lot of stuff gets thrown up on the wall. And the iteration process is a very complicated one, folks are putting their blood and sweat into it. And the ability that I really only learned in the last 10 years, to let it just happen. To be demonstrative around what I think is some ideas you know, you and I were talking before we started about you realise that I coach soccer for a long time was my boys are into it. I got a buddy, who was the director of coaching for our soccer team in town and the greatest lesson I ever learned was from him. On the field, one time some kid gets on the ball and I start yelling like an old football coach, go go beyond screaming at him

Mike Parsons 14:38

you would be that parent right

Mitchell Caplan 14:41

out and said, Tell him to relax. Pose it as a question. When it comes off the field, ask him what he could have done differently, as opposed to saying, why didn't you so the ability to take a step back, be very thoughtful about being aware of the process, other people are going through and be able to frame guidance, not necessarily as definitive, but as open ended, so that folks can solve it for themselves and they have the patience to let it play out - for me was the biggest change in I hopefully allowing me to be a better collaborator and consultant.

Chad Owen 15:24

What I'm hearing you say is kind of the opposite of the move fast and break things that Mike and I have kind of heard when we're pulling nuggets of wisdom from from Silicon Valley, you know, talking about the likes of Richard Branson, or, or Mark Zuckerberg. But I think this giving creativity space is a really interesting idea that you both seen on the creative side in the agency, but also you were talking about like in private equity, maybe not jumping into soon into a deal or you know, where something maybe didn't pan out. And it was a good thing that you can didn't jump on the opportunity. I'm curious how else that patients has has benefited that, you know, in the company's over

Mitchell Caplan 16:09

There's patients and then there is also when you get the privilege of being in the position of being the decision maker of being able to make those types of thoughtful decisions. So the the private equity space, I got hired a few years ago to help run and set up an agency in Minneapolis for sale. An old friend of mine from WPP had been brought in as the CEO, he brought me in as the CMO. We thought it'd be three to five years, we were both commuting back and forth from New York. And 18 months later, we had an acquirerr who is highly interested. And they wanted to move fast. And the thoughtfulness on that part was, while we had a short period of time to make a decision, we were very thoughtful about getting input from everyone looking at all the data that was available to us by the end of the day, it was a private equity firms decision and other shareholders. But I had to set it up in a in a way that they could make a decision quickly. But it was still based on getting input from all different parties, and quickly putting it in a structure that could be decided upon. So great experience,

Mike Parsons 17:22

this this this patience and this thoughtfulness. I want to imagine that you're now *inaudible* us. What's one practice that you have to to make that happen. And while you're thinking about I give you an example. You know, there was a famous Roman Emperor who was advised by a very wise man that said before you make any decision, do the alphabet, A to Z because he was rather impatient. And just to take a step back and be more thoughtful. In your case, if you are giving us advice on how we can put this practice into place. What's it, what's a tip or a suggestion that you can give to us to bring about some of

Mitchell Caplan 18:14

the simplest thing for me, has been realising unless there is really a sense of urgency, everything can wait. So I used to feel like I had to answer an email right away, right? Yeah. I don't like what that person saying, or they need an answer from me right away. And almost 95% of the time, it can wait. So I will give it a couple of hours or even a day so that I can take a minute to take a breath and really think about it. I did not do that when I was younger. Absolutely not. I was I was bad. So I have learned through actually being a husband and a father, and a soccer coach and all those different things and making tons of mistakes, that it's okay to take those moments, the world will wait, business will wait and you will almost all the time provide a much more thoughtful response. Both in how will you react and the actual content of what you put out there.

Mike Parsons 19:22

That's great. So thank you for that, I before *inaudable* and and quick warning for our massive, how many do we say 1000? People? Audience? Yeah, yeah, before we go to the throngs who are going to get to ask their questions to Mitch, I know that you actually have returned to your lecture circuit, and you actually have the chance to talk to young college students and give them advice, apart from this reflection that you've put into your practice in these patients. For anyone here in the studio or at home, what other fundamental learnings Have you had on your journey that you feel like have really guided you? What practices tell? Tell us a little bit when you're with those, when you were that guest lecturer? And you've got all these young hopefuls with you? You know, obviously, this reflection is one thing, but what else do you try and impart on them to guide them through the career path?

Mitchell Caplan 20:29

So, for me, I've had a great career. But there is a big part of me that thinks when I was 21/22 and just starting to get out of school. What would of happened if I had gone to San Francisco or had an opportunity and been a concert promoter? Right? My aunt was buddies with Bill Graham. And I was like, Oh, my God, I have to I had a job offer at an ad agency, I have take this, I didn't go to Europe. So when I'm at the university Maryland and I'm a visiting lecturer, or I'm talking to a kid who's thinking about going to Maryland, I do some of that kind of work through their alumni session, or anybody else who's just coming out of school or in those first five years, I tell them, make sure whatever you do is the one thing you really, really, really want to do. You want to be a journalist and go work for a newspaper. If you want to be a copywriter in an advertising agency, you're 22 or 23. If in two years you hate it, you'll be 25. And you can make a pivot, you can make a change. So for younger, coming out of school or juniors or seniors, my biggest piece of advice has been if there's something you really love, go after that first. And if it don't work out, you're still you're going to work the rest of your life for the most part, you can change. Right? I think that has been for me, were while I don't regret most anything. I wish I'd taken a couple of years to venture out and play around a little bit and follow a little bit of a passion. Although this was another path for me. And it turned out just, I got to meet you.

Mike Parsons 22:18


Mitchell Caplan 22:19

yeah. So how much better?

Mike Parsons 22:21

Much! Good advice, by the way, very thoughtful advice. Do you remember those calls? I used to call you in New York? And I, Mitch help?

Mitchell Caplan 22:28

I can't really talk about that, because they will *inaudible*

Mike Parsons 22:37

know. Okay, Chad.

Chad Owen 22:38

Yeah. So for those of you that have a question or an insight, I'm maybe what this this theme is I'm,

Mike Parsons 22:54

I'm looking over here, that gentleman there with a beer in his hand.

Audience 1 23:05

Thank you, Chad. Mitch, do you have a failure in your career that you always come back to that you feel like you, you learned the most from and grow the most? Is there one that always stands out for you, though? Thank you.

Mitchell Caplan 23:23

Hmm, I have to think about it. I would, I wouldn't call them failures. I would call them moments. Like I've been fired from jobs. Right. And in those moments, it's happened a couple times for me. Sometimes it was my fault, sometimes it was just circumstances. And in those moments, I could have gone in a bad place. And I think aside from marrying up, and having someone I can really count on in those moments, I never really lost faith in my ability to make a living at doing something that I really liked. And that things would always work out. If I stayed true to myself, and took those moments as just another speed bump in the road. Then it always, it always just works out for me. So failure isn't the right word, but a challenging moment. And it always works out for me in a place where I wind up almost in a better place. So I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend getting whacked every once in a while. But if it happens to you, this stuff happens to people and you're if you're talented, and you're passionate and you're thoughtful, you'll recover and you'll be in a better place.

Mike Parsons 24:38

Yeah, one more. I'm looking for us.

Chad Owen 24:40

Here we go.

Audience 2 24:43

You spoke a lot about the early part of your career coming out of college, the different decisions you made along the way. As a an accomplished professional, how do you look at a more mature part of your career? And how are you approaching this?

Mitchell Caplan 25:01

It's a really interesting question, mature part of my career. For me, I'm very lucky in that I have fallen into a job at Flock, which is a consultancy that works with clients around marketing transformation. And what that means is we go in the client organisations, some of our clients have been Ford, Campbell's and J&J and McDonald's, and I'm able to take the learning I've derived from 25 years in the agency business, excuse me, and apply it to some of the principles of organisational design, capability, assessment, procurement, around their agency relationships. So the maturity for me has come from being able to very thoughtfully go back on my experiences, both good and bad, and apply those to helping client take a look at how they are structured, how they work, and the outcomes they want from their outside partnerships. In a manner that's not just all about what are they all doing wrong, but what we can do better. And it's been really interesting. And the the ultimate maturity pivot for me is that I'm going to go off and teach. But a lot of the work that I do a workshops where I'm up in front of a group like this, and taking folks through a workshop and guiding them to try to figure out what is the right solution, as opposed to telling them, which I likely would have done earlier my career. So

Mike Parsons 26:35

well, then you *inaudible* asked guest our first of three, in *inaudiable*. Number two, would you please show your appreciation for Mr. *inaudible* wardrobe change. Well, I think we all discovered in that conversation is that which, to which most of our work happens, which is at high speed, we're bombarded with messages, the expectation to return that email almost instantly. So we live in this moment where we're expected to work at almost an inhuman speed. But what we what we just learned from Mitch was, take a breath, you know, take a pause, and just introduce that thoughtfulness. And I really like what seems like a burning fire right now, is often not really the DEF CON one, the sirens are going, the horns are blowing. It's not actually like that. And we often create that, that chaos not only for ourselves, but the people around us. And we can just relax and take a breath. So thank you ever so much for that. Mitch Caplan. Come to a very exciting, different journey. I think it's time to invite our audience to show their appreciation from our transcontinental guest *inaudible*. Okay. Katrin. Welcome.

Katrin Zimmermann 28:32

Thank you

Mike Parsons 28:32

Welcome to the show. Hopefully you have some, some fellow countrymen back home?

Katrin Zimmermann 28:41


Mike Parsons 28:42

Well, it would be rather late

Katrin Zimmermann 28:45

saying it's good enough.

Mike Parsons 28:46

Yeah. Very much. So. So thank you for coming on.

Katrin Zimmermann 28:50


Mike Parsons 28:51

Okay. *inaudible* That Katrin. And there's a couple of things that we really want to get into, number one this lady was instrumental in creating an innovation hub, which was a pivotal moment in your career. And but she has been bold and correct *inaudible*. bags. And to get on probably a Lufthansa flight

Katrin Zimmermann 29:20

at this one, yeah.

Mike Parsons 29:23

into New York. And as somebody who has been an expat several times, I can only begin to tell you, this is an amazing amount of work. It's *inaudible* and this is a great rlearning, so I'm really excited.

Katrin Zimmermann 29:43

I can only second all of it. Okay, good.

Mike Parsons 29:45

We're in. I *inaudible*, there's lots to talk about here but maybe we should start there. You're in your home city, you're in your home country and you have chosen to invite all this change into your life.

Katrin Zimmermann 30:06


Mike Parsons 30:06

And you've come all the way to New York to lead a business. TLGG

Katrin Zimmermann 30:12

Absolutely. To do the consulting. Yes,

Mike Parsons 30:14

yeah. So we're going to talk about what you do here. But I want you to take us back to this moment where you're like, you know what, I'm going to New York. Tell us about it.

Katrin Zimmermann 30:25

It's actually a funny moment, I was drinking a cocktail at a bar in Frankfurt. And my current boss was sitting next to me. And he was like, so we've just been bought by Omnicom. And I'm planning to open an office in New York, don't you want to go and run it? And I'm like, well, that's a that's a message. You weren't expecting, you know, I wasn't expecting it. But I had actually lived in New York for an internship before. And back in 2003, which is quite some time ago. I lived in Brooklyn at high chair Mohan you as a Brooklynite will know that and how it changed since then, in the last 15 years. And I was very excited by the by the thought and I've been like, yeah, let me think about it. Then then probably a day or two later, I was like, yeah, and let's do it.

Mike Parsons 31:10

Okay. Okay. You went a little too quickly for me deciding. But how do you? How do you actually when it becomes real? Yeah. How do you actually say yes, in a meaningful way? How do you make that that leap? Tell us how do you make those leaps?

Katrin Zimmermann 31:29

And I honestly, I just said, Yes, but that's Yes. Then it took another 15 months until it actually happened. So I'm just saying yes. Isn't, isn't all it takes to be honest. It was a gut feeling. And it was a bit of a roller coaster ride until it actually happened from getting all of your papers in place to make it happen. Telling your family that you're actually leaving telling your boyfriend, that you're that you've decided to take that leap, and whether he's open for a long distance relationship across the *inaudiable* going in all of these beautiful conversations and saying, why are you embarking on a journey that takes you so far away from all of your loved ones? And what is a good argument to do that? And why doesn't it sound super egotistic, head on a stick and all of these negative terms?

Mike Parsons 32:19

I just quickly ask, what was that arguement?

Chad Owen 32:22

I'm curious. I'm curious what the opportunity you saw here that wasn't available to you. And I'm guessing part of it was you're you're now running this new, this new part of the business whereas before you weren't, but what what brought you what was the opportunity?

Katrin Zimmermann 32:37

I think it was a moment in my career where I for the last probably five years, being in corporate innovation haven't worked from a flight attendant to an executive assistant of the executive, Porter, Lufthansa. And it was really that moment where I realised, well, I've been talking about changing and the need for change and for transformation of organisations, in the last five years, years, maybe to be more credible in what I'm talking about, I actually have to take that leap of faith and get an understanding what it actually means when you change something and how much discomfort and how much anxiety and how much excitement and how much curiosity that instills and walk through all of these different moments of change the change curve that you're going through as an individual, and I think, probably I was well equipped, I've always been very curious. And I'm a big traveler, I love to go to places, I like to learn about people and their perspectives and lives, new cultures. So I guess all of that kind of transpired in that moment where the opportunity was at the table, and I grabbed and I said, this is what I gotta do. This is the right decision,

Mike Parsons 33:46

Such a remarkable journey. And you've you've reminded that we need to come back and find out. I mean, the journey you went on, from working on the planes to working with the board to come into you know that that's that's something I want to come to *inaudiable* romanticise this idea of being an expat. And all of a sudden, when you land in the country, it gets real.

Katrin Zimmermann 34:10

Oh, yeah.

Mike Parsons 34:11

And frankly, speaking, those first three, six, sometimes 12 months are probably on average, a little bit tougher than in the inspiring, joyful thing you had imagined. Let's go a little darker. *inaudiable* The greatest challenges you faced in that first year and told us a little bit about what happened? What we really and how did you get through it?

Katrin Zimmermann 34:40

Oh, there's a combination of things. So probably the first week I arrived, we really literally carry the furniture into the office. And then the second week, we learned there were bedbugs on our floor. And that first month, I was like, Oh, great. This is the one that goes. *inaudiable* And there was a bit of a personal challenge, because my grandmother actually was very sick. And she eventually died in the second month that I was here. So there was a lot of like, personal struggle in terms of Whoa, now I'm very far away from my family. How do you support moments like that, that are kind of extreme, we were very close. But then on the other hand, you realise the world is a small place, because it literally happened on the day that my mom called me and said, Well, she's not so well. I booked the flight, I had no clothes, I went to the airport, I flew back and I went to, you know, stayed with her for for four more days. And then I had to come back to New York, and she died the day later. So *inaudiable* for you for whatever that means. And so whenever you take bold decisions, and there will be something that is given back to you, I think that was probably the lowest moment in the first three months.

Mike Parsons 35:53

And for everyone here in the studio and online. I want you to imagine there's an impending crisis, which we all seem to have a life. What advice do you have for us? Because you're obviously, a very, your engineered to be an optimistic, curious adventurer, not all of us have such skills. What advice do you have for us to soldier on through those those tougher moments?

Katrin Zimmermann 36:25

To me, and I think that's a basic like characteristic, I guess of who I am and how I've been approaching my life, I kind of have this and look at the bright side and smile at yourself in the morning in the morning, because you are your best friend. And as long as you're taking yourself on the journey with you in a very conscious way, you always have someone by your side. And I feel like that is probably the most positive thing that's been, you know, carrying me through living in six different countries, and always finding new social circles, you know, having great people around me learning about a new cultures, new environments, new organisations, new opportunities.

Mike Parsons 37:07

So a big thing that's coming back is this curiosity and this learning, that you spoken about. And one of the amazing things is how many shows have we done 50 or so

Chad Owen 37:19


Mike Parsons 37:21

47. So you can see, here's the one is. *inaudible* So so so check this out. I *inaudible* mean, one of the things we see in growth is, is the practice of learning. Continuous learning. What's nice is often people say that the best form of learning is teaching. So I think Mitch has got great learning experiences ahead of him. So I would love to ask you a little bit about how do you learn and maybe this time, tell us about in your work. Because you're a very, you're in a very creative and a very strategic environment. So there's big idea flying around, tell us a little bit about how you learn, and how you keep growing.

Katrin Zimmermann 38:04


Chad Owen 38:05

And what you've learned from the clients that you've worked with, because you've worked with a lot of enormous, very successful companies, and then maybe some smaller startups as well. So I'm curious what you've learned from them.

Katrin Zimmermann 38:17

A lot of things. *inaudible* few things that might might stand out, in terms of how do I put that best. Umm, it always feels like we're, we're living in a world where, you know, we're, well there's some of us who were very expressive of the things that they've learned and what they have to talk about. And then there's a whole other of the community that listens to these people and their ideas and, and how that's being expressed. And probably one of the greatest learnings that I had throughout my career, you know, working with startups, working in a corporate, working now with amazing companies who are all in the innovation space, looking at curing diseases, you know, transforming industries, transforming themselves, is that it's all about looking at the outside, and then also sometimes looking at the inside. And in what what do you bring to the table, what creates value and what is out there that you can connect it with to spark or create that next leap of faith or that moonshot walk, or that new practice, and it's really about cross pollination. So the more you go out in the world, the more you look from, you know, take that from that industry to deploy it in this industry. I think that is probably one of the greatest insights in the last couple of years.

Mike Parsons 39:35

This is very interesting, because this outside inside perspective, I see it reflected in how you think about your practice, work. But it's very reflective also of how you made those choices, to pack your bags from Germany and get on Lufthansa flight, land in New York

Katrin Zimmermann 39:53

Lufthansa will love the marketing.

Mike Parsons 39:56

Get to your work, by the way, me.*inaudible* faster pace here a little bit. So I'm sorry about that. We'll get to it. But But this inside out, if you were to imagine you're teaching us now, how can we look outside and look inside to inspire us? Because that's obviously a really nice contrast? What can we do? How can we do that? Teach us. Like what can we do in our work to incorporate that? looking outside looking in

Katrin Zimmermann 40:23

another teacher like Mitch, and I more, I don't know, I can only tell you how I'm doing it. And then maybe you can take something away for yourself. I don't know, it's just an idea. I'm a big fan of self care. And I think as much as we bring out there and express ourselves in the world, as much as we interact with one another as much it's important to interact with yourself, and look at all of the different components of mind, body and soul that you want to take care off and do that quite actively. And now it's a bit of a trend these days, which is unfortunate. I think sometimes

Mike Parsons 40:58

You think it's a little to trendy.

Katrin Zimmermann 40:59

Yeah, it's would have to trendy kind of subject where, you know, it's I'm not in that marketing aspect of it, although obviously working in that industry.

Mike Parsons 41:07

So how can I? Yeah, what's up to us for reflection? You talked a little bit about living on the inside and self care, what does that look like? What can I do?

I think you could do that in America.

Katrin Zimmermann 41:15

It's a quiet moment. Ideally, it's, you know, sitting with a tea on the couch, or in the park, or at the waterfront, and then taking that moment to step back from everything. And pretty much similar to what Mitch said, that take yourself out of the situation, step back and reflect on things. That is something you can do. But also can be the absolute opposite for me, sometimes I just love to go somewhere else. And, you know, challenge the mind with a new culture with a new experience with something that I haven't you know, experienced yet to go to a music club, you have never been to, the music you don't like for example, and expose yourself to the situation, talk to someone who has a politically opposite opinion of yours and try to understand why they have that opinion.

Oh, quite easy. But then I have lived in Oklahoma. So you know, I have the full broad spectrum of what's possible.

Mike Parsons 42:09

Okay, so that's really inspiring. So, so you're saying search out the different things. One of the things you're saying is go with a curious mind. Just be open and just discover, you know, don't pass judgment.

Katrin Zimmermann 42:24

It strongly agree. I mean, I am, it was maybe 2004 I traveled it was before the Olympics in China, I flew to Beijing didn't speak obviously word of Chinese, all by myself. I took a cab to the Chinese to the wall, and *inaudiable* water it was 100 degrees, almost died. You know, some Chinese gentleman gave me a bottle of water. And I walked through Mexico City all by myself, despite the fact that everyone said don't do that. I think it's Yes, it's sometimes taking a risk and you know, taking that leap of faith that the positive activity that you bring to a place might reflect in that place.

Mike Parsons 43:04

Hmm, okay.

Katrin Zimmermann 43:07

She doesn't know the stories.

Mike Parsons 43:10

*inaudible* City. I remember the first time I went to Mexico City, it felt like I had a like a personal armoury to get me to the office for the meeting. Which was unusual.

Katrin Zimmermann 43:22

Yeah, you don't have that as a flight attendent Lufthansa so you either go outside all by yourself or stay in the hotel, I would always go.

Mike Parsons 43:29

Okay. So I feel we have to get some advice from you here because you started your career and made one of the most wonderful journeys, obviously, for you to share with our audience. This remarkable story went on working at Lufthansa because it's, it's really very inspiring.

Katrin Zimmermann 43:54

Thank you. Well, it's an interesting, I don't know if it's an interesting story. It's just what happened to me, I suppose. So I started in a very interesting program that some of the German corporates offer which is a vocational training, which is something that is not so common in the US, I think, in combination with a study program. So I did classical bachelor's degree in business. And I became an expert on air traffic management. And so I know what it takes to calculate the right way to balance for for an aircraft to take off into land, for example, and some very basic mathematical knowledge, that I never used, again, my career with my studies as like, great, what I'm going to do now I'm 22 years old, I really don't want to work in an office. And seriously, I'm not going to eat in canteens every day. And so I decided, Well, you know, Lufthansa become flight. So I did that for three years, started to study psychology because I was curious of the mind and the human, realise maybe that's not a career choice. But I was able to probably travel to 60 countries in the time. From Iran to Ethiopia to you know, China everywhere, whatever. So that's an intriguing I enjoyed that a lot. But at some point, probably the top of the hill I was like yet is this will get boring, eventually. And I had done a master's degree in Spain and was done with it in another to hospitality management.

Mike Parsons 45:25

Just hang on a second. Guys. Have you guys got a visual global map? crisscross Crisco, I'm trying to how will you frequent flyers, by the way, off the charts.

Katrin Zimmermann 45:36

And these days, yes, but now I fly delta. So it's the US right? Back then I was employed by the company. So you have the wonderful benefit of being able to fly for quite some discounted fares.

Mike Parsons 45:51

So let's *inaudiable* go your journey here, because you ended up being instrumental in the airlines innovatation. So we'll just skip over the fact that you were taking care of the whole board, just skip over it, that we'll just get to the innovation part. Okay. How How did you get there? And and if you were to be speaking to young people watching at home, or our fabulous studio audience, how, how might we invite such possibilities into our lives?

Chad Owen 46:23

I'm also curious, like many of us are working at companies where we millennials, you know, want to buck the trends and be innovative and do our own things. And it sounds like you were very instrumental in kind of making making that happen inside of a company like Lufthansa. So I'm very curious kind of the message you have for his young folks, that are trying to bust you know, bust through this the ceilings,

Katrin Zimmermann 46:49

I think it's gonna be a bit disappointing because it was a lot of perseverance, probably. It was me sitting, all happened, we were lot of young kids seeing that digital transformation was a subject that was a lot talked about in the media and all of the information that were given to the board from consultancies to whoever. But really, in the day to day, nobody spoke about it in the company. And we were like, oh, there's a mismatch. And so we brought it to discussion, piece between everyone was like, yeah, you know, not, you know, not that important. I was sitting with the CFO at the time in a meeting, and she asked for some cultural change management, a subject that Mitch also talked about, why don't we use Facebook for that? And that's kind of that question actually led to her than being more curious about the subject of digital transformation, how that comes about why maybe as a cooperative, do not want to use Facebook, for your internal communications. And so she embarked on should we said, well, we have some ideas, but we will need some money. And then she actually gave us a budget to explore that journey. And in the end, we founded the company six months later with four of us to build the Lufthansa Innovation Hub, in out of Berlin as its first location. And the just I think last week, they opened a second location in Singapore.

Mike Parsons 48:15

Wow. I want to ask one more question before Chad embarks on crowd surfing 2.0. I want to pick up a little bit on what Chad was saying. And I want you to, you've obviously had this surging, of you've had this curious mind. And you've been so open to going out into the world and finding new things and exploring. If people who are listening to our conversation right now are wondering like, Oh, geez, I would love to do that. But But where does it start? What's what's the practice that I can go and do today that might, because it sounds *inaudiable* butsort of, do you have a bike a practical thing that we can start doing to to invite the sort of possibilities into our lives?

Katrin Zimmermann 49:08

Start with yourself, I guess you are the master of your own life, you can decide what do you want to do, you can pick it up, you can think about it in a positive way, you can think about it in a negative way. And that sounds, obviously, I mean, I have been very fortunate, I'm not saying that I'm, you know, coming out of a challenging environment. So that definitely is something that, you know, as part of the basis where I'm coming from, and for some people that might sound very, you know, unreachable. So many people that, you know, have come from way more challenging environments and have reached such great, great career steps, such great output in their life, that I think it lies within you, and you can make it happen if you want.

Mike Parsons 49:57

Okay, well said, Okay, so this time remember, for our audience, it's your chance to decode what's happening. You're giving it back to me. Oh, okay. Hello, audience? Who's got a question for Katrin? Who wants to invite these sort of adventures into their lives? And I'm getting I have this extra sensory ability to find a question. And I feel drawn into this space of the audience. So Chad, take the take the microphone, and I can feel that, you know, this question potentially someone wearing, Oh, there we go. There we go. That I could tell you, I could feel it.

Audience 3 50:40

Is there anything you would have done differently in your life? Because you've obviously done some amazing things? Was there anything that any regrets that you've had?

Katrin Zimmermann 50:49

Well, that's probably a few. Yeah. It's good to have them because the biggest learnings you probably take out of these moments of, Hmm that didn't go the way I kind of had it in mind or planned or anticipated or thought about it. And yeah, for sure, but I still feel I'm tremendously lucky in everything that happened to me, I would not, you know, I would always say that while I had a very, very amazing life in any kind of sense, very fortunate.

Mike Parsons 51:24

Okay, who else?

Audience 4 51:28

So you've already done so many things, but what's next? Like what? New Frontier for you?

Katrin Zimmermann 51:34

Um, I think probably it's going to be a little bit in my more in my private life focus than it is in a career focus, I think, you know, when you reach whatever level you reach, and you have a feeling Oh, I didn't ever expect that this would happen and probably that was a moment sometime late last year where I thought like, wow, I did not expect that this would all happen in my life. And I'm you know, in my 30's so she was like okay, maybe I'm looking at shifting focus a little bit and look at other things that might be important.

Mike Parsons 52:07

And I am sure you did some quiet moments on the couch I think are in the park you said to come to this realise

Katrin Zimmermann 52:13

It was Miami Beach but yeah.

Mike Parsons 52:22

*inaudible* I think I don't think many *inaudible*

Katrin Zimmermann 52:26

depends on where you ago.

Mike Parsons 52:30

So what? *inaudible* In courage and curiosity, would you all please give it up? *inaudible* Do the famous wardrobe channel, so I want you to miss this. And *inaudible* I think what's really interesting, if you notice the conversations that are happening, if you notice, there's this interesting thing of learning, of courage and curiosity. So when when I already reflect on our first two guests, I'm immediately ready to go *inaudible* internal and the external, the curiosity, that sense of adventure.What's really interesting for me, is that there was this thought of taking a moment of self care. Mitch, *inaudible* as not everything is a burning bush fire emergency, it will be okay. So I want you all to kind of take this on board and think about because I think it sets us up so much to orientate ourselves, on how we can go out in the world, do the things we love, which was also by the way, a great piece of advice from Mitch to go out and just do it. So this fills me with curiosity and wonder, for what our third guest is going to share with us tonight.*inaudible* to admit one thing as we welcome Scott to the stage. San Francisco, and I reached out discussing Scott S. Williams *inaudiable* he's on No, no, no, no, no, you don't want you don't want me. Now you don't want me on the show. And I was like, Scott, you have the most amazing *inaudiable* And there is so much to learn. So I want you guys to like double down and really enjoy what we're about to get into because to introduce the President of the Nantucket project, and we're going to talk a little bit about that. But he is also got a fabulous career that has spans. Let's see if my memory is serving me well in the jet lag not getting hold of me. We've got HBO, we've got ESPN, we've got this *inaudible hotels. And now under the moniker of the Nantucket project is such an exciting spectrum of experiences that we can all learn from. With the Nantucket project, as it seems like such a fabulous fest *inaudible*. But tell us a little bit about it and what it means to be kind of curating such a special event.

Scott S. Williams 55:45

Okay. It's, founded nine years ago, up on Nantucket by a guy and a two co founders who had worked together at Nantucket and actors. Tom Scott had founded the company, on the heels of winding down Plum TV, which is a media company, and I came in as chief restructuring officer and interim CEO during that sale of the company. So I had met him there. It was really designed as a four day, Ted like Aspen Institute like thing for exactly what you just talked about with Katrina, Katrina, Katrina, Katrin, which is, you know, lifelong learners, these seekers of exploration and such. And it's now after this is our we're going into our ninth year, it's now divided into live events. So we do four days up on Nantucket for 500 people on a under a tent at the white elephant. And then we take that show on the road, we go across the country, we do one night events, we're doing spectacular tour of the country this summer. We've been just got back from Sundance. And then. So there's a live events division. And then we invite *inaudible* this past year, it's you know, on one spectrum, it's Tony Blair and President Bush, and Neil Young, and Paul Giamatti. It's a crazy collection of art and science and technology and politics and, and the like. And then out of let's say, it's Mike Parsons, talking about Moonshots. What happens is you inspire us, we have five filmmakers in the crowd, all staffed up by us or a stable of filmmakers that we work with. They're inspired by something you've talked about in the Moonshot, we may use a little bit of your talk, we're not TED Talks. But we then go out and are inspired, defined that the thing about Moonshots that completely transforms the idea, and it's a feature film, but it's not feature length, it's all short form content.

Mike Parsons 58:14

So it's almost like the event sort of starts like a like a chain reaction.

Scott S. Williams 58:18

Yeah, the talks become films, films become something else. And so there's this what we call the TMP lab, and group of content makers. And then we have an academy, which we take 15 scholars a year, and run them through a battery of curriculum. They're selected for, basically, the criteria is how are you impacting the world, they're either about to go to market, or they're already in the market with an idea, a product or service, that is got some sort of an impact. And we help accelerate them through learning, storytelling, business planning, and human engagement, business planning, I mean, if they need it, and then our network, you know, we usually see two or three pop through a year. And then we just launched this thing. And then I'll shut up

Mike Parsons 59:11

now just, Did you see the list of the job description was doing this, I'm like, I'm overwhelmed?

Scott S. Williams 59:19

We have a great, great, great group of people. And this is not my baby. This is Tom's baby. And I'm along for the ride. But we did a what essentially was a proof of it wasn't even a proof of concept. This is along the lines of the Moonshots. A friend of ours said, you know, she was so inspired by the four days, she said, will you come over to my house, and I want to help promote your thing. People don't really get it. And so we went to her house, we brought an what was probably a 45 minute reel of our content. And by the way, our content is about humility, acceptance, grace, reclaiming democracy, all packaged into these. It's now called snackable, digestible, whatever you want in the digital world content. And we strum, probably 45 minutes together and people's reaction, and they were just invited for popcorn. And their reaction was, I haven't had a conversation like this in years, I talk about small things, but I don't talk about big things. And we did it again, same woman's house. And then Tom said, let's start a conversation series. And so what started as something called conversations, with think of a book group with our content. So you gather a group like this, you press play, nobody has to read anything, there's no homework, you press play, and you watch a series of it's probably 22 to 30 minutes, and then you have a conversation. And we're now in 22 states, we have, I think, 12 modules, so we're 12 months into this thing. And the beauty is, Mike starts a group, Chad starts a group. What street o you live on?

Mike Parsons 1:01:06

Rosemount Avenue.

Scott S. Williams 1:01:07

Okay, so it's called The Rosemount Avenue Project. You submit that on kind of a creative brief to us, we do all the artwork, and then we push it back to you, then that becomes a paperless post invite, you're responsible for getting your 12 people in your living room, anybody can manage it anyway. So we want to have, eventually, if we get scale, as we're getting will have a national conversation. Our goal is March 1, The Neighborhood Project, conversation on Moonshots. And we'll have 100,000 people talking about Moonshots. That would be on Tuesday morning, whatever it is. So

Chad Owen 1:01:49

It's it sounds like at the heart of what the Nantucket project is doing is convening in interesting diverse sets of people to have these conversations that maybe aren't being had. With that group of diverse people were kind of stuck in our echo chambers, in talking to people that are like minded with one another. In what's interesting to me is much of what Mike and I have found in our discovery in the moonshot podcast is it is about getting the right people together to do the thing that they want to do. But what you're doing is you're you're not only doing that with your own team in the Nantucket project, but you're actually scaling that out in the world, putting those projects together all over the place. So I'm, I'm I'm inspired. And I'm going to create the Myrtle Avenue Project as soon as, as soon as we as soon as we leave. But I'm curious what you have learned about your experience? like? What does it take to get the right people together? How do you inspire them? And how do you give them that I guess, push to then have those may be difficult or unlikely conversation?

Scott S. Williams 1:03:01

Well, all the science, all the statistics are in our favor, the science is that if you create more meaning in your life, you'll live longer, you'll be happier, you'll be less depressed, you'll sleep better. And so it is a method of creating greater meaning in one's life, whether it's with five people or 12 people or in a tent with 500 people, and then having the real conversation. So there's no, we asked that there's no small talk. It's not. Where's your kid going to school? Which is what we all get a lot of us get caught up in? And what are the scores? And how are they doing? And what trip did you take? And what was the service like, which is all great. But there is this massive disconnect that's occurring with social channels and despression is spiking with your people. And so this is an anecdote.

Mike Parsons 1:04:08

And and what a what a broad spectrum of activities that makes this an antidote. I want to segue as a little into how I mean, as you were explaining, as you were giving us the spectrum of the all of the programs that you're running in a very practical manner explain to us how do you manage across so many different areas? And and of course, there's teams working but how do you personally deal with tracking? Is this on track? Is this on track? You spoke about so many different, You've got the cohort of the 15, you've got the new projects initiating, you have an event. I mean, you're making investment like, how do you personally, I mean, you've obviously got a notebook. So that seems like a good start. But how do you manage personally across that?

Scott S. Williams 1:04:57

Great question we have invested in Scrum, which is, you're a good you know, when we first met, you had Sunrise. Do you remember that? Remember that app? I don't know what happened to it. But that

Mike Parsons 1:05:11

Microsoft bought them.

Scott S. Williams 1:05:13

There you go. Yeah, Mike taught me about Sunrise, which was a organisational tool early on. We use Scrum, pretty religiously through our unit. So we were inspired by a book called Above The Line, which is Urban Meyer, who coached Florida and then went to Ohio State. He wrote this book, and he talked about his unit. So we've adapted all of our I mean, we're a tiny little group. We have 29 full time employees. When I joined, we were six. It's, but without Scrum, we'd be dead. Because there are 10 units in the company. We just *inaudable* opened ours, John's book What Matters Most, which is so aligned with what matters most which is in our mission. Because we are in search of what matters most so

Chad Owen 1:06:13

so those, of us that aren't in the know.

Scott S. Williams 1:06:16


Chad Owen 1:06:17

Like Scrum. OKR.

Mike Parsons 1:06:20

Yeah, I tell more.

Scott S. Williams 1:06:22

Okay, so the scrum technology, or Scrum, the methodology is just tracking project work. It was developed in The Valley, probably with Agile Software guys. And it's great tool for engineers. And we're all like, what, what the hell are we going to do this with such a creative staff and it it's just moving post it's around, and having Sprint's on a weekly basis, so that if I'm responsible for getting WPP to sponsor the train that we're going to take around the country, have I made those calls, and it's doing, its the project itself, and then it's doing and you move it over to done by the end of the week. So it creates transparency. If Mike's not holding up his end of the bargain in my unit, I can see on the post it so do you need help? How can I remove the obstacle? And it's just like marching down until you done there's a little bit of tactile feel of finishing the job because you get to take the post it down, throw it away, Yahoo ring a bell. And then Tom decided to move to OKR's you got, as we scale. It's becoming untenable. We were doing short form content for a lot of clients and then for ourselves and arena men, film festivals and premiering them on the road and premiering them at the Nantucket project. And so there's a factory like, you know, from Warhol to the end factory system, and then there's, there's, it's a good way to collaborate with people that have different capabilities, I would say.

Mike Parsons 1:08:12

So, you know, we've talked about agile with talk about scrums, and OKR's and these are all different methodology by which you can organise people and get work done. But I wanted to ask you, you know, those fun, those functional ways of organising one way to look at it. In your role, I want you tell us like what do you focus on when you're working with those 29 team members across so many different projects? How are you thinking and feeling when you're sitting with a team, where you're working with the team? What is the thing you'll focus most upon when working with that team and helping them get to that job done on Friday, what's top of mind in how you can help them and how they can move?

Scott S. Williams 1:09:02

I look at the end and work backwards. So say if one of the inspirations around the offices create miracles. And if you're going to create a miracle in customer relations or the event or have a short film that's talked about, how do you get here and then work back and figure out right?

Mike Parsons 1:09:27

So reverse engineering?

Scott S. Williams 1:09:29

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Mike Parsons 1:09:30

Okay, so this is a really interesting and

Scott S. Williams 1:09:32

calm down. I mean, I would take a page from Mitch, which is, you know, just I'm old enough now to know that. And I'm a cyclist, and there's a cyclist prayer, which is, there will be chaos, keep pedaling. And and it's it's kind of counterintuitive, because you do want to embrace the moment and understand and coach, but you just have to keep going. Otherwise, you know, peloton falls apart? Every cyclist is got interview.

Mike Parsons 1:10:05

Yeah. House of cards. So when you get to those moments, and this just reminds me of when Katrin had said, You know what, Deutschland in New York here I come *inaudible*you take these big leaps. And then you often after your peak of expectations go on a very slippery slope into the valley of darkness. When you're facing in moments, where you're like, I'm questioning whether I should keep pedaling. But you kind of some way, you know, you have to keep pedaling, but it would be just so nice, to stop pedaling. It's a bit like when the alarm goes off, and you look at the snooze button in your like, oh that would be so nice. How do you in your case? How do you keep pedaling? How do you keep going? Is there some things that you do that help you just keep on track? And just keep going?

Scott S. Williams 1:11:04

Probably, yeah.*inaudible* I yeah, I wish I had something pithy to say, I, I think you just have to keep the momentum. And much of it is whether it's management, or leadership. And it's that incentivising people that that idea is the idea or it's not the best idea you've had, I know that you can do better we work at such a pace that I'm, you know, you get afraid that people are used to just churning it out. And there is time for reflect, there is time for better work. And you just have to remind yourself that there is oftentimes a better path and it's not always full of bumps and bruises and not sure that's is pulling off the peloton.

Chad Owen 1:12:12

Yeah, I have just one final question, then, I would like to ask two other people in the audience kind of what some of the themes you've heard from from everyone this evening. But what surprised you most about working with this particular team? So you've led other teams, you said, you know, you've been interim CEO, and you've had other positions in leadership? The people then Nantucket Project sound like a very interesting group of people. I'm just kind of curious, what has surprised you most about working with this particular group and kind of what you've learned and adapted your leadership in order to help you all achieve what your your your OKR's?

Scott S. Williams 1:12:57

I would say there's a, it's sounds so hokey, but there is a passion and an unquenchable thirst for making the human connection of a better thing, which is, which is why coming from hospitality and media and the theater before that, creating the greatest experience, you can, and that doesn't mean that means something like this, that means making sure that every touchpoint is reflective of the brand, reflective of the purpose and that I don't think we compromise on. And that's a testament to the senior most leadership at the country as a company.

Mike Parsons 1:13:42

So, holding on tight to the vision, and almost don't, don't settle for any compromise on vision. Maybe it sounds like he can be flexible and how you get there. But, but

Scott S. Williams 1:13:55

I would say with with most brands, today, there should be a framework, and a filter in which you can make decisions and let people make good decisions. But it's so fluid right now with all brands, that you, have to punch above your weight, you just have to, in order to cut through it in any. And so you cannot be afraid to go out of bounds and risk, not risk everything, but certainly swing for a fencer too.

Mike Parsons 1:14:28

I like that. That was also very, very connected to, you know, the search of adventure and just Mitch was just saying to his younger self, just go for it. Right, just go for it. *inadudible* We are going to send Chat *inaudible*. Get ready to take the jump, the lunge and remit *inaudible* sensory device, it's definitely for where question might come from. And I feel like that maybe some beer drinking troublemakers right up the back there Chad, who would conjuring good questions.

Chad Owen 1:15:06

Yeah. Or I'm also curious about the themes that you've heard emerging this evening.

Audience 5 1:15:16

Yeah, I'm not sure I have a question. But I have been thinking about sort of what you've all been speaking about. And I think there's some, some element of appreciating one's own agency and controlled narrative, you take a step back and not letting necessarily, you know, outside forces sort of influence too much. And just sort of re recognising, you know, your role in, in sort of charting that course and figuring out what it is you want to do. And and it's interesting, because you've all had a pretty broad assortment of experiences and courses, but that seemed to resonate sort of throughout all three was, you know, don't don't lose sight of your own role in, you know, the, and how you ended up there, things like that.

Scott S. Williams 1:15:57

Yeah, I would frame that as your own more code. If anybody read the paper today about Carlos Ghosn I think you pronounce his last name, guy from Renault, and Nissan, who's been in jail, right. And so the Renault cut him loose today, or yesterday whenever the news cycle broke, but the quote today, and I wrote it, because I thought this was a quote from him. And this comes back to Don't forget who you are, and I don't care how big your job is. So he's apparently accused of misappropriating funds that were used for personal gain. When you invite people to a party, they say maybe, when you invite them to Versailles, they will come. So apparently expensed his second marriage, right Mitch? which is 50. Was it is fifth fifth now? Yeah, his second marriage. So I want to read that again, I mean, just don't forget who you are. When you invite people to a party, they say maybe when you invite them to come to Versailles, they'll come any thought *inaudible*

Mike Parsons 1:17:14


Scott S. Williams 1:17:16

So yeah, that was a quote from today's paper. Who, who does this shit? Really we're going to, the shareholders of Nissan and Renault are going to pay for his second wedding at Versailles.

Mike Parsons 1:17:32

It was really, it was really at Versailles?

Scott S. Williams 1:17:38

*inaudable* see these photos?

Mike Parsons 1:17:40

Oh, my gosh.

Scott S. Williams 1:17:43

But it happens time and time again.

Chad Owen 1:17:45

Yeah, we have it. We see it all the time, all the time. Anyone else that had some reflections on maybe something that they're taking away? From this wonderful discussion that we've had here on the Moonshots podcast live in New York,

Mike Parsons 1:18:00

I'm sensing is a gentleman who's dying to contribute. I can just I can see it.

Audience 6 1:18:09

I certainly don't know if I have a question. But just appreciating kind of automatically what was said, and that last comment kind of hits home having worked with a company called MDC partners in there. They're all former show runner models and all so not quite as bad. But in any event, I digress. I just personally just, you know, really appreciate it kind of the you know, going back to Mitch, I took it as kind of like an interdisciplinary approach, like learning through teaching really stuck with me. And kind of the coaching aspect and how you parallel that with with business practice. And as millennial myself, I think the pacing of how you respond and how you prioritise is constantly an issue. So I think you know, that is a big takeaway, and just trying to keep that in the back your mind, how you operate, how you channel, your contribution. And again, how you just kind of prioritise all all that really struck me so much appreciated. Not that I didn't appreciate everyone's comments.

Mike Parsons 1:19:06

Okay, guys, it's still some beer and pizza left. But I really want to invite all of you, just two *inaudible*people offered. And remember that as long as you keep learning, I think this is the big thing we've learned together, isn't it? We've studied all of these entrepreneurs and innovators. And tonight, what we've seen is once again, there is curiosity, learning, intentionality. And if we can just remind ourselves of those things and bring those into our work day. Then we can all shoot for the moon. So, guys, I'd love you all to show your appreciation for our three guests *inaudible*.

Come on *inaudible* Brooklyn, denim refinery. Thank you, to you to all. *inaudible* Thank you Please go and check all of the archive of this show and all the other 47 so check on the Moon`shots podcast. Thanks everyone.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai